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Author Topic: 2017-05-02(1)  (Read 6129 times)
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2017, 02:43:27 am »

Stop nerdin, you will just make content easier than it is..
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 02:45:37 am by jobezi » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2017, 02:59:05 am »

I dont think that getting full content cleared is that easy. And as people said they want blizzlike experience and atleast we think this is not like it should.
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2017, 09:19:47 pm »

I think some sarcasm was missed Shocked
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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2017, 05:05:59 pm »

To the people trying to get video proof of the INVISIBLE void zones: Are you seriously this stupid? Btw noone ever said that on live all void zones were invisible, so saying things like "The void zones were clearly visible for the 5 seconds the cameraman panned towards it" make no sense. We need to look for people taking damage or dying while not visibly standing in void zones.

Something like this:

http://www.predestinedguild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3158

Date, picture evidence, text talking about the invisible void zone, it's all there.
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2017, 05:51:26 pm »

^ glad somebody noticed
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2017, 06:25:44 pm »

A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 06:28:25 pm by Homura » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2017, 06:42:49 pm »

A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.

Little to none on VG. KT should reset all aggro after each MC.
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2017, 07:40:42 pm »

I just spent about an hour googling this and here are just a few links I can provide to support the argument of invisible void zones being blizzlike.

Dates for clarity:
June 20, 2006 - Patch 1.11.0 added Naxxramas
September 26, 2006 - Patch 1.12.1
December 5, 2006 - Patch 2.0.1
January 9, 2007 - Patch 2.0.3 - Dark Portal Opens event
January 16, 2007 - TBC released

http://www.predestinedguild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3158
http://www.predestinedguild.com/images/news/2006-11-2/invisvoid.jpg
Predestined, Horde guild. This post is from Nov 3, 2006 of them killing 4HM. There is text referring to the invisble void zones as well as a picture of 2 people dying to one with combat log.

http://lurkerlounge.com/forums/thread-3820-post-120810.html
Forum thread from 2006. I am directly referring to the post by Skandranon on 12-12-2006. I have not been able to find direct information from patch notes referring to these "fixes" but we see text of someone saying these invisible void zones were fixed in patch 2.0.1, meaning they were still a problem in patch 1.12.1.
Quote
The Four Horsemen. Having repaired invisible void zones, the patch has finally removed randomness from the encounter. Know what to do and when to do it and these guys aren't too tough, though they're still harder than nearly everything else.

http://www.forgottenaspects.com/forums/index.php/topic,8083.msg67700.html?PHPSESSID=ebid499qli13e8dpvromgmhtlenud59a8u6ds3simtc107473mk2094ttvt6ukkf0puo6c63u5cb9j1s6tfi813284i40gh9t2vdah2#msg67700
Forum thread post from Nov 17, 2006. This member provides an overview of the 4HM fight including boss abilities and strategies that can be used. At the end of the post he provides some additional information:
Quote
Lady Blaumeux is the most deadly of the Four Horsemen due to her void zones. The best way to avoid them is to get a spell alert mod like WitchHunt so that you can see when she's casting. As soon as you see the cast message, strafe to the right or left to avoid them. Some void zones are bugged and are invisible, so you need to strafe no matter what.

I understand the argument of - it just seems stupid that blizzard would script invisible void zones. But there's no way it was intentional. This information is clearly showing that guilds were dealing with this issue during retail vanilla.

If anyone can find hard proof with dates, text, images, videos, of people suggesting there weren't invisible void zones then continue posting. A lot of the videos previously linked just show small portions of Lady Blaumeux's corner. We would need to look at much more than just a few seconds. I think it needs to be stressed that NOT ALL voidzones are bugged. Only SOME appear invisible. When and where that occurs seems to be unknown and completely random.

So this seems pretty blizzlike to me, unfortunately. Should probably stop asking GMs to fix what technically isn't broken for patch 1.12.1.
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2017, 09:00:20 pm »

A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.

Little to none on VG. KT should reset all aggro after each MC.

well if you are not complete retarded and are not getting mc'ed while rebuilding threat you should be back after 4 mcs
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« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2017, 09:21:46 pm »

Raiders impressions and efforts to work around it doesn't make for an argument for or against it. Context, though, is much more useful to glean any information; the first forum talks of them angrily as defective code, but this doesn't help beyond that given that it's not probable they were privy to the code itself; Iorek and Skandranon refer to them as "bugged" and then "repaired" after the release of TBC, so its safe to asume that during that time it was considered a broken mechanic, either by players' understanding of the fight or admision of Blizzard developers. and later considered a fixed mechanic to some sort of extent.

Another thing to consider: the same fight in WotLK, even if you consider that the remade raid was (or not) slightly toned down compared to the vanilla version, void zones there weren't invisible, so if you'd consider that most game developers would try to fix and retune the content that they revisit, it reinforces the idea that void zones weren't intended to be invisible. They'd want the most people possible to experience the fights as the imagined; 10-25 group number changes from 40 and loot systems would help in that, and they'd have no reason to take a given "hard" mechanic out if they didn't think it was important.

An example of a quick search for testimonies of people who played during that time:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4siu45/question_on_the_original_naxxramas_4_horseman/
Quote from: Sampson_the_Druid
Did the fight when it was current (never got past them sadly thanks to all the tank poachers) and I can assure you that they were all quite visible and nobody died from an invisible zone.
Not doing the dance properly and fucking up your debuff stacks? Absolutely killed people. Hidden, untextured zones of death? Nah. That sort of random one-shot BS only happened on pre-nerf C'thun.
Quote from: librarytimeisover
I remember this fight! Visible!
Quote from: Emeraldon
No, they were all visible unless someone had horrible lag or something similar.
Quote from: Lunn89
I remember we had some members complaining about invisible voidzones on 4horsemen, but I never encountered any myself. I think it was lag or bad PC / videocard / drivers not being updated tbh.
Quote from: shadowX015
Well it isn't how it's supposed to be. [...] The mechanics that can kill you obviously should be visible. It's a bug.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1319568-Original-Naxx-4-Horsemen-hardest-encounter-ever
Quote from: Warstar
People also had to deal with invisible void zones which some people did use that as an excuse when they just tarded it up it was a buggy mechanic that really did exist and would one shot a healer if they didn't get out before the damage from it ticked (think of moving on heroic lich king except sometimes defile was invisible and instantly killed you when it ticked it's first damage). Not so much of a mechanic but a common bug that had to be dealt with.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=16065/lady-blaumeux
Quote from: DeGoudenEeuw
On 40man Lady Blaumeux was probably the deadliest of all four horsemen due to her void zones which would often glitch and become invisible for many raid members, while still hurting if you stand in them, which was really a lot of added difficulty being around her considering that pretty much the whole area around her was covered with void zones during the fight.

Besides, its one thing to claim and push for Blizzlike'ness, but using it as a justification to keep bugs that aren't working by the rules of by any understanding of how game mechanic should work is misguided at best and malicious at worst.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 09:25:26 pm by Connelly » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2017, 11:08:06 pm »

Probably the best recap of the issue at hand. In my opinion it is pretty well established that this issue happened on live. I think we can safely assume that the less than half of people who say they don't remember the bug either didn't encounter it because it is linked to circumstances which didn't apply to them, possibly the strength of their PC. The argument they use is never "no that didn't happen" but rather "Blizzard would never do such thing". It's a bug. Bugs happen. But bugs don't happen every time so we shouldn't base our judgement on the handful people who didn't encounter them.

After the existance of the bus is supported by evidence of multiple sources, we need to decide on the next step: should it be fixed? Yes. Although it has an "original vanilla feel" it is still a bug. People don't always want Blizzlike. Not when we can get better than Blizzlike. Despite this, the bug should have a low, maybe medium priority, when there are much more gamebraking bugs that can actually ruin one's enjoyment of the game, such as WSG flag, blink or fear. Things that occur much more often on a much more core mechanic of the game that can not be avoided in any way (these void zones are insanely easy to avoid even when invisible). After these core bugs are ironed out, I am completely with killing this historic bug.

Now if only VG had more than a 9th grader with a python cheat sheet as a coder, that would be great Cheesy
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