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Author Topic: Noob tanking questions  (Read 9557 times)
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« on: January 15, 2015, 12:35:51 pm »

Ok, so, I'm a noob, and I like tanking very much. But I always ran into problems, so I have a few questions regarding tanking gear.

Baron Rivendare and some UBRS dragon fights seemed incredibly hard to me sometimes. My question is, is it a good idea to use lowerish level 'Thorium Armors' there? (Because obviously I don't have access to Tier1 fire resistance gear or BWL resistance gear), so my only accessible option would be:

(Thorium Helm, Thorium Belt, Thorium Bracers, Thorium Boots)


I could stack these with 'Medalion of Grand Marshal Moris', 'Stockade Pauldrons', 'Skullflame Shield'. And eventually with the shadow resistant engineering trinket, the Ultra-flash Shadow Reflector (though it seems a huge effort to get it).

The important part of my question is, that this way, I would have 350-360 defense (with the 10 defense from the talent points), instead of the "normal" tanking (I'm a warrior, sorry, I forgot to say that) pre-raid gear, which would give about 390. BUT I would have 58 shadow resistance.
So, let's say that, I'm a noob, I don't care about raids, I just want to have fun at Stratholme and Scholo, would this setup be better? And would this work for UBRS, too? (58 fire resistance, 38 arcane resistance)

Another question: night elf or dwarf warrior for tanking? (not that familiar with horde, I only heard about Taurens from there). Where is the dwarf poison resistance good, at Zul Gurub? How important is that there?

3.: Why is that 2% block shield enchant so good? If a boss hits me for 1000 damage, and the shield has a block value of 40, that means that I will still get 960 damage. It seems incredibly weak to me (considering how expensive is that enchant). And this enchant increases that chance by just 2%?

4.: Stupid idea, but the Naglering:


inflicts 3 arcane damage in melee attacks.
If I would use a mage ring in the others slot, I don't know what's it's name, let's say 'Songstone of Ironforge' from blackrock depths, which increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 18, that would mean that I would cause 21 arcane damage to every melee attacker? Would this be useful for easier 5 man instances, like let's say BRD?

5. Another strange idea, if I drop the blacksmithing, and I get engineering (anyway it would be needed for the trinkets), and I would make Dense Dynamites, would they help for the adds at the Baron fight? Is it a good idea to waste time with that? (Dynamite description: Inflicts 340 to 461 Fire damage in a 5 yard radius. (cooldown 1 min))
I mean, okay, strange idea, but those adds from Baron seems incredibly annoying, I can't keep them on me, they are immediately attacking the healer, they are the worst thing I ever saw.

6. (Sorry, I have lots of questions.) One time, at Scholomance I had -90 shadow resistance, and seemingly I got no diseases or curse or similar on me. Is that a debuff linked to a certain area of the instance? Would that cancel out completely my whole resistance gear theory?

7. At Stratholme (doesn't matter if living or undead), the first few pulls seems very hard. I don't know if it's bugged, but even if I stun the mob, it still tries to run away and chainpulls the next group, and after that the following group. Would it be a good idea to spec a bit in fury and get the [Piercing Howl] ability? ("Causes all enemies near the warrior to be dazed, reducing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec.")
Would it waste too "much resources" from the protection talent point tree?

Because for example, the "Last Stand" ability seems rather easy to sacrifice to me. I never know when to use it, 30% extra health, sounds good, but I don't know when to pop it. I can't watch constantly my health bar for this, and how will I know if the healer is out of mana? Maybe he is just casting for a second a heal spell for a mage who got in trouble or something, I don't know.

8. Again, at Baron, those "Bile Spewers", fat mobs, before Ramstein, when they started to cast instant poison, Venom Spit or I don't know what, that was eating my health away so fast, it was scary. A bad pull, pulling two of those, and I don't think that any healer could keep me alive there. Would it worth putting in the effort to farm (the gold) and to buy from some higher level players the [Ironvine Breastplate] (726 armor, +30 nature resistance, Equip: +7 defense) and [Ironvine Gloves] (454 armor, +20 nature resistance, Equip: +10 defense)? (I don't like the belt that much, and I would need that slot for the Thorium Belt).
How much nature damage is reduced by let's say 50 nature resistance? (I know that there are guides on the web, but they are so confusing, some of them includes newer patches, some of them don't, I can't figure them out.) And when a 'resist' occurs, is it completely resisted? Or just by a given percent? I mean does it cause crazy damage spikes sometimes?

So, would this solve the problem? Because this setup would give me 88 nature resistance with a night elf, or 78 with a dwarf. [So are night elvs better? (because I saw a lot of cases, where nature resistance could come handy, if I'm right even those whelps before Rend Blackhand from UBRS are casting thunder damage or what)].

9. Icy chill enchant on weapon. It chills the target, slowing it's attack speed by 25%. It seems very very nice, but it's almost always resisted at boss fights. Why? Is that suppossed to be like that? Was that mechanics modified on this particular server? Also I saw some people with 3% hit enchant on the ranged weapon (bow or crossbow or gun or something). Will that affect melee attack? Or what enchant is good for the weapons, let's say the melee weapon (if the icy chill is not that good)?

10. Also, thunder clap seems good to me, it's not resisted, and it slows down their attack speed by 10% (it's just a bit of pain to change the stance to battle stance). Is it any point to use the demorilizing shout?

11. Also what easily accessible weapon is good? I know what shield I want, the Skullflame Shield, because that gives 10 shadow resistance (it seems even better than the Draconian Deflector in this regard), but what weapon? Would it be good to use 'Hand of Edward the Odd' for tanking? (45 damage per second. Very strange stats, +13 intellect, and 'next spell cast instantly' buff.) But it would be relative easy to get from AH...

12. And just one last question about enchants, the +4 all stats chest enchant seemed somewhat popular to me (but more for rogues). What does "all stats" mean? Just agility and stamina and strength, etc., but no resistances? I saw some kind of "Greater Resistance", +5 all resistances enchant for chest, too, would that be better for tanking? Or in general what enchants should a tank use? I saw a +20 fire resistance head or legs enchant, too, but it comes from a quest, with a "Lesser Arcanum of Resilience", I can't make that, it would be an immense work. But (in theory) would that be better than for example paying for a 1% dodge AQ20 cloak enchant?

Well, that's for now.  Shocked I will come back with other questions in the future. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Also, I would like to mention that I found a nice tanking trinket for noobs (like me)



1% dodge, not very much, but it comes from a level 45-50ish quest from Stranglethorn Vale. It's a quest, it's easier to do it, than to farm General Angerforge at BRD hoping for a Force of Will trinket drop.

Also, an interesting idea from me. The "Super-Seller 680" vendor from Desolace (in the southern area) sells unlimited amount of Scroll of Protection III (180 armor for 30 min.) and Scroll of Agility II (9 agility for 30 min.) for 4 silver each. They seem a good option to me. Tongue

In summary, please help me, give me ideas, give me tips, tutorials, anything, because World of Warcraft is one of the most complicated games I ever saw in my life. Especially considering tanking, huge amount of mistakes can be made.

And even if I dream about raiding one day, and getting best in socket, full, pre-raid gear, it seems impossible to get there if 5 mans are that much of suffering sometimes.
This game is a pain!!
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 01:29:55 pm »

4.: Stupid idea, but the Naglering:


inflicts 3 arcane damage in melee attacks.
If I would use a mage ring in the others slot, I don't know what's it's name, let's say 'Songstone of Ironforge' from blackrock depths, which increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 18, that would mean that I would cause 21 arcane damage to every melee attacker? Would this be useful for easier 5 man instances, like let's say BRD?


This does not scale with spellpower.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 01:31:58 pm by erki » Logged


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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 01:36:04 pm »

Hi,

1. i think you better of using normal gear instead of resistance gear,
the thorium armor does not give anything of stats and low armor.
the most damage done by the bosses you mention is the physical damage.
you can also get a druid/priest/paladin for some extra resistance with there buffs/aura.

2. the class doesnt rlly matter tho i'm playing dwarf and i find the stoneform usefull for som fights.
example AQ40 huhuran when she does the sleep posion on me i can stoneform out of it so i can keep doing damage or tanking.

3. the 2% block enchant is something rlly good simply cause it makes that you get 2% more chanche to have a block.
if you get 25% block unbuffed and then use shield block wich gives +75% block it makes you have 100% block then making the first 1-2 (depending on you specc) a certain block.

4. The naglering is indeed a nice ring but adding a spellpower ring also with it is not going to up the damage it does when attacked, or atleast it should not be like this.

5. the adds from baron needs to be aoe'd down or kited by a mage best.
it can help if you have enginering to have some dynamytes but you can also just get some stratholme holy waters to do the same thing honestly.

6. the -90 resistance is a bugg that sometimes happens i've seen this happen allot.
a quick relog can make it go away, think it just a visual bugg tho.

7. the first few pulls are indeed Always hard in startholme cause it are allot of mobs.
the best you can do is just pull them back as far as possible.
and if they go running then you DPS'ers should nuke them down in time...

8. for me i do not like using resistance gear for instances you should be able to do it normally have a paladin or so to dispell the posion honestly. it can help to have resistance gear there. and having a resist means you resist the posion so no damage and no dot.
you can also have that you get the dot on you and you resist damage itself that the dots creates.
also having 80 restance is not much or so, when you know that resistance cap is 315-316.

9. as tank most ppl go for 15 agy on Mainhand weapon, as it does 0.75% dodge and crit.
crusader is also something decent as it procs much and does have a small heal effect when proc, also adds 100 strenght wich gives more AP so more damage/threat.
and about the 3% scope on ranged it does work for melee even tho it should not be like that.

10. thunderclap is something good indeed ppl Always use it against bosses mostly in guild, but the MT normally stays in defensive stance and let the offtanks do it.
demoralizing shout is something good also as it reduces atck power making enemies do less damage on you.

11. hand of the edward odd is pretty good as it does decent damage and is a fast weapon.
what most ppl get for preraid tanking is something like scarlet kris or so.

12. ZG enchants leggs/head , 30AP shoulders ZG , 1% dodge cloak , +4stats chest or +100hp , bracers +9stam , gloves +15agy , boots +7stam , 3%hit ranged , 15agy weap , 2%block shield/or 7stam
this is most used setup for tank enchants probaly, and like the head and leggs you can also get the +100hp on those instead of the ZG enchants as they only go to ppl with t2 or so.

13. nice trinket for nice quest, but there is also 2% dodge trinkets like villagnce charm or something

ps: i doing this on Phone srry for type mistakes or just no links / research
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 01:16:58 am »

Hmmm, I think I miscalculated some of the information got from add-ons.

After my new calculations, it seems like for example Gyth, the mount of rend blackhand from UBRS, hits in melee for about 200-600 (on plate) every second, fire breath or what for about 700-900, and nature damage from acid breath of about 300-400. So this was the moment when I came up with the idea that how cool would it be to lower the fire and nature damage... (It would be a good idea, just not with green gear). And anyway after Gyth, Rend deals only melee damage, so it's probably not worth it...

Vanilla seems so hard to me sometimes. I calculated, and the Tier 3 warrior gear gives about 8% extra melee damage reduction compared to the Tier 1. That doesn't seems to be that incredibly huge to me (assuming the effort needed to get it). (Just more stamina) but my assumption is that for beginners like me, it's more important to understand the strategies, because like for example Gyth reduces the armor with his corrosive breath, so the off-tank has to switch and tank Rend Blackhand. And not even mentioning the General Drakkisath fight, where the strategy seems very very hard to me. I don't know where to stay, at his side, behind him, but if I stay behind him I will not going to see that well when the main tank gets feared with Conflagration. I don't understand that Conflagration, is that happening in a cone of fire forward, can I stay exactly near the main tank (to see him better)? Will we both get conflagrated at the same time if I do this?

And it seems like we made a mistake, we simply tried the Baron Rivendare fight with a hunter dps. And I think that they are not that good at this, because (I googled it) and they have a relative high cooldown on aoe damage abilities, and they have a bow, they still have a bit of minimum range even for area of effect dps, it's not that perfect in this case. I think that in this case a warlock and a mage dps would be the coolest for Baron. But how should a beginner know things like this, we all have to start somewhere.

I also tried to get (Lesser) Shadow Protection potion for Baron, because I thought that it will help. Later realized that where it says "Last 1 hour", that means the unused buff lasts 1 hour, not the actual effect. So I had to realize that I can only experiment with 'Magic Resistance Potion' (description: Increases your resistance to all schools of magic by 50 for 3 min.). (The chromatic potion seems a bit too expensive for my purposes.)

Anyway, in conclusion, my opinion is that pve is a bit overpowered in vanilla. Lots of time it can bring huge amount of frustration, becase the programmers had some minor/huge psychological issues.

Like for example, 80% of the warrior dungeon set 2 is useless for tanking, and it needs a 45 minute Baron run for that cr@p?

Conclusion: I'll have to reroll a rogue. Smiley))))))))

>It's hard for beginners to acquire the tricks, the strategies, to learn to use it smoothly and to be able to react fast when needed (and to know exactly what should be done). In the last time I even tried experimenting with home installable (offline) servers, and to change the damage coefficient for output to x10 for UBRS, and the input for x0.1 or x20 for ZG, x5 for Scholo, etc. It seems impossible for a beginner otherwise, I can't experiment when I'm in a group, and to try something new and to risk to kill everybody after 60 minutes of clearing. It doesn't matter (at my level) if I have an extra 1% dodge chance or not, if it takes me 5 seconds to get to the mob, because I wasn't at the right place.

It takes a long time to figure out World of Warcraft...
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 01:29:34 am »

if you want send me you ingame name and i'l run/push you through some dungeons.
and can help you with some questions better then.
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 12:57:59 pm »

Thx, very kind offer. "Tankchriss" and "Fkrisz" are considered my main characters, a night elf and a human warrior (I was planning to convert one of them to fury). Also 'Fkrissz', an 58 mage, and 'Fkrisszz' a lvl 43 priest. But I was playing very intenesly in the last time (I have Skullflame Shield on the night elf), so I'm planning to take 2-3 weeks off (in favour of Cata Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue).

I don't like that much the open world pvp on this server, I'm a warrior, I can't pvp, I can't dps. It's so scary when I'm mining, gathering herbs, questing, etc. and a rogue scares me to death, everywhere, all the time, it was a bad idea to put 'tank' in the name.

Serious players will not attack that scary, but it gives a lot of space to noobs.
(Anyway, I'll be back soon with a 'fresh' mind.)
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