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Class Discussion => Paladin => Topic started by: Joru on May 07, 2012, 01:43:53 am

Title: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Joru on May 07, 2012, 01:43:53 am
The forum only allows 20000 letters in 1 thread so I continue the guide here ;)

The Guide will include Talent builds for PvE and PvP, explanations of the build, gear and randomness.

General shorcuts that may be used in the guide tho I try to avoid it:
BoM = Blessing of Might
BoW = Blessing of Wisdom
BoK = Blessing of Kings
BoL = Blessing of Light
BoS = Blessing of Sacrifice
BoF = Blessing of Freedom
Socom = Seal of Command
SoC = Seal of Crusader
SoR = Seal of Righteousness
SoW = Seal of Wisdom
SoL = Seal of Light
Other shortcuts and wow terms can be found in your WoW manual in the glossary on page 174 - 177 :P
(yes I did read the manual when I started WoW and it actually helped quite alot)

2. Retribution
 2.1 The Retardin
   2.1.1 Talents PvE PvP
   2.1.2 Learn to Play
   2.1.3 Gear

 2.2 The Reckadin
-coming soon-

2. Retribution
This tree is all about dealing damage, wielding a big 2handed weapon and smashing enemies with it. In PVE the
ret pala is mostly a backup DPS. You will see many people saying paladin can't do proper dps however I proved
in every guild I was in that paladins can do decent damage and even top the damage meters by far. Doing so
however requires good gear. A ungeared pala will do alot less damage than any other ungeared class but once
the paladin gets good gear the damage will go through the roof and easily keep up with/beat even geared
warlocks and warriors.

 2.1 The Retardin
   2.1.1 Talents PvE
    I have to say something here that will surprise many paladins who didn't raid such alot as dps. The best way
    to do damage as a Paladin is using spellpower gear, 1hander and SoR. That is because the improved seal of
    Righteousness becomes better than Socom at the point when you reach ~400 Spellpower. The Socom spec is
    also a bit too much of a luck spec imo. Of course the "Warrior pala" with a big 2 hander and Attack power/crit
    gear can do good damage too but if you compare 2 equal geared paladins, one with SP and one with AP then
    you will always see the SpellPower retardin win.

    The Build I use for SP retri:
    Benediction and Improved Blessing of Might in the 1st tier to reduce mana cost of seals and judges, allowing
    you to fight longer without having to switch to Blessing of wisdom and to .... Improve your BoM ))

    Improved SoC and Improved Judgement in the 2nd tier to do even more damage and to do it more often

    Maxing out all the talents in the 3rd tier to reduce the bosses' damage on the tank with vindication and get
    more crit chance to have vengeance up more often (and to get down to vengeance). Socom just because
    you got the points left and it's nice to have and Pursuit of Justice because it's nice to run out of AoE and
    all kinds of evil things faster.

    4th tier is gay for PvE.

    Sanctity Aura in the 5th tier to increase your holy damage by 10% (pretty much all damage in the Spellpower
    build is holy damage) and NO 2handed weapon spec because it's smarter to use a 1hander with spellpower
    when you use this spec.

    5/5 Vengeance in the 6th tier to get a flat 15% damage increase after a crit (adds to the 10% holy dmg from
    sanctity aura)

    In the Holy tree I take Divine intellect to increase mana and spellcrit (for vengeance), Improved SoR because
    it's the Seal I use and consecration which is 1 of your main sources of damage
    In the prot tree I get Improved Devotion aura in case it's needed for a certain encounter and to get down
    to tier 2 where I take precision which increases your damage (no hit, no proc = sadface)

    The second PvE spec is the Attack power/crit spec which uses socom instead of SoR and a big 2hander
    this spec does alot of burst BUT since you go for AP/crit and there arent many items that give you those
    stats and int before Ahn Qiraj 40 you will go oom faster than the SP pala and also if you miss that can mean
    you loose 2-3k damage that you could have done there.
    This all sounds negative but the spec CAN be awesome because of this:
    It's pretty much the equivalent to shamans windfury spec tho it's not THAT luck based (70% proc chance on

    The build:
    As you see it's pretty much the same as the SP build except for taking the 5 points from Improved SoR in holy
    and spending them into Divine Strength and the 3points from vindication into Two handed weapon
    specialization in the ret tree.
 PvP Build
    The ret tree is the same as in the PvE 2hander build except for taking eye for an eye to return 30% of an
    incoming spell crit's damage to the target and of course repentance to have another stun. In Prot I take 4/5
    in Toughness to have a little more survivability and in Holy it's the same as in the PvE 2hander build.

    If you roll the spellpower playstyle you can just look at the PvE build aswell and make those changes for the
    1hander spec.

  2.1.2 Learn to Play

  The damage paladin is really really REALLY simple. Your main sources of damage in both, the Spellpower aswell
  as AP/Crit playstyles are the Seal procs from your autoattacks, your judgements and consecration. However
  using consecration in the AP/crit spec is only usefull if your mana allows it. A Paladin without mana is useless.
  when you run oom you have your seal of wisdom that you can judge on the enemy (if it's not already up) and
  autoattack with the seal up. It will regenerate your mana quite quickly and in PvP this is the thing that makes
  Paladin duels take forever ;) So when you engage the enemy the first thing to do judging crusader on the
  target to increase all your holy damage and then you pretty much just keep auto attacking and judging while
  spamming consecration (not in AP/crit spec blabla as I said).
  In PvP you should always save your Repentance to stun the target when you need to heal or to finish off a
  healer in a big burst. Keep in mind tho that this is not a stun like Hammer of justice, it's similar to a rogues'
  sap and gouge and can be broken by warriors' berserker rage, deathwhish and stuff like that. It also breaks on
  damage so be carefull not to use it when the target stands in any kind of AoE like your consecration.
  speaking of consecration, it's a good source of damage with the SP build but kind of useless in AP/Crit spec
  so I only use the the rank 1 consecration to get people out of stealth or to keep them in combat in with that
  As in any spec you should keep in mind you have your support abilities too so use them in order to increase
  the effectiveness of your team.

  2.1.3 Gear
  For the spellpower build I go for Spellpower to increase all the damage I do, intellect to get more mana and
  spellcrit, spellcrit of course to have vengeance up more often and some stamina or mp5 is always nice but
  it's not a priority. The ideal gear for that spec is Tier 2 period ))
  I also suggest using the Darkmoon Card: Maelstrom ( along with the spellpower
  gear since it stacks with Spellpower and its capable of critting for like 700 - 800 which is
  quite the awesomeness

  With the AP/crit build it's a little bit more complicated to find gear. The main stats are obviously Attack Power
  and strength aswell as +crit chance. Agility is usefull but it shouldn't be prioritized over AP/strenght and +crit.
  However you will need some intellect aswell and that's the hard part. There aren't alot of "Paladin only" items
  up to Blackwing Lair. In AQ40 and Naxxramas there are decent items for that spec, for example the T2.5 set
  and the Items from naxx trash but if you are not raiding those instances yet you will have to ninja a warrior's
  items and mix them with those paladin only items. That is also a reason why you won't do consecration as
  much. Your mana just won't allow it and because your spellpower is kinda low before the mentioned instances
  it is a waste of mana.

  Edit: I forgot to add that the Pala PvP set pwns funflolololl

If you have any suggestions/questions/complains/flames post them here or tell me ingame and I'll add them

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Aster!!!!!!!!!!! on May 07, 2012, 05:09:11 am
I approve this great work as always when it comes to paladins

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Buexx on May 07, 2012, 08:04:58 am
thanks Jewru <3
awesome work

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Alexanderson on May 07, 2012, 09:12:17 am
I think..i need to come back to have fun with Joru lol.

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Alexanderson on October 17, 2012, 04:57:06 pm
Bumpidy Bump,I don't know if you are are working on another paladin guide Joru but Y U NO EXPLEN RECKADIN ME NUBZ.

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Joru on October 17, 2012, 05:01:26 pm
Because it is a fun spec and I don't take it serious. Also there's not much to explain:
Spend 5 points in reckoning, take 5 critical hits, reckbomb, take screenshots of upset whispers.

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Bcd on October 24, 2012, 10:01:55 am
Nice Guides :D

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Aster!!!!!!!!!!! on October 24, 2012, 10:03:43 am
nice link :D

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Dawoobie on October 24, 2012, 05:12:44 pm
nice I like it, makes me want to start up a pally no matter how OP they are here

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Alexanderson on October 25, 2012, 08:42:18 pm
A question.Joru,what do you suggest as a sp chest for sp retri dps?

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Joru on December 06, 2012, 07:24:14 pm
I suggest to take either the Tier 2 chest or the Rank 13 chest. Of course when you have full T2.5 that will be the choice but I know u don't :P Of course you can also use any high spell damage cloth, leather or mail chest but since you also sometimes have to do some mass add tanking in raids (like those 78253167 bugs in AQ40) I recommend using as much plate as you can. (And I also think a paladin has to wear plate but that's my personal philosophy :D)

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Buckle on December 06, 2012, 07:40:29 pm
Going by pure stats the R13 chest is the better choice depending on your other in slots though as Joru said the t2 one isn't bad until t2.5

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Egl on December 06, 2012, 08:01:34 pm
Well this is the first time I see this thread.

Anyway with the SoR Retri build (spell power Retri) I suggest downranking the role of spell crit and increasing the role of melee crit.

With Lok's 2.1 speed for example you need (2.1/8)*100=26.25% melee crit to theoretically keep Vengeance up 100%
After thinking it like that the stats of T2.5 suddenly made a whole lot more sense.

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Joru on December 15, 2012, 01:37:41 pm
well sadly there is no possible way to have vengeance up 100% of the time just with gear without loosing almost all of my spell damage. So it's smarter to take as much melee crit you can get but making sure it doesn't effect your spell dmg. Also the guide is from a time when twins were buggy and cthun was broken :P With the possibility to get full T2.5 now that sure is the best way to go since it has great spellpower other stats aswell. but even when you take full T2.5 you won't get enough crit. You would have to change trinkets, rings n stuff and use only +melee crit stuff that doesn't give you caster stats. So as a golden rule you can say: Take as much melee crit as you can without loosing spell damage. Unfortunately only the T2.5 set, the gloves from visc and dat belt combine those. But yeah... needs an update... im just lazy :D

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Gnoem on April 17, 2014, 12:44:25 pm
This guide helped buexx to understand some crucial stuff about pala's :S

Title: Re: The Paladin 2 (work in Progress)
Post by: Arisias on May 08, 2014, 12:04:52 am
Was never a fan of Pallys tbh. I wanna level one but i don't think i would have it in me.