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General Category => Server Changelogs => Topic started by: Ergamemnon on May 02, 2017, 02:30:41 pm



Title: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Ergamemnon on May 02, 2017, 02:30:41 pm
(http://logon.vanillagaming.org/img/pending.png)



*Naxxramas:
- fixed patrols on DK Wing entrance and crossing patrols after Gluth: They will group up properly when this hits the live realm!
- added some more patrol-route that were missing
- looking forward to fix more group patrols, so raids can manage them better (let us know if you know specific patrols that should have prio)


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Almisael on May 02, 2017, 06:18:06 pm
thaddius throw fix?


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Ergamemnon on May 02, 2017, 08:53:50 pm
I wish I could influence that one :P


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Whataburger on May 02, 2017, 10:48:31 pm
When are yall gonna fix Blumeaux void zones?


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Lokka on May 03, 2017, 04:41:57 pm
When are yall gonna fix Blumeaux void zones?

Invisible VZ is actually blizzlike, if I remember correctly. They didnt fix it before TBC, so they are gonna stay invisible forever I believe.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Homura on May 03, 2017, 05:25:21 pm
Nice! Since I'm a greedy mofo: what about fixing KT? Namely Chains of Kel'Thuzad.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Ergamemnon on May 03, 2017, 06:10:28 pm
When are yall gonna fix Blumeaux void zones?

Invisible VZ is actually blizzlike, if I remember correctly. They didnt fix it before TBC, so they are gonna stay invisible forever I believe.

^this

Nice! Since I'm a greedy mofo: what about fixing KT? Namely Chains of Kel'Thuzad.

report for z pls


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Nimo on May 03, 2017, 07:08:13 pm
When are yall gonna fix Blumeaux void zones?

Invisible VZ is actually blizzlike, if I remember correctly. They didnt fix it before TBC, so they are gonna stay invisible forever I believe.

^this


LOL? But voting 2 times per day for titans or 100gold aswell as being able to get full t1 from donation shop is actually blizlike? Please stop pretending you are leaving things be just cus you dunno how to fix them. Its pretty game breaking and even if it actually was unintentionally blizlike, why wouldnt you try to fix it cus it obviously needs fixing?


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Ergamemnon on May 03, 2017, 07:37:57 pm
Nimo your argument is invalid. Some things need to be tweaked to have this pserver running - whereas we want the raids to be as blizzlike as possible


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Lokka on May 03, 2017, 08:30:56 pm
When are yall gonna fix Blumeaux void zones?

Invisible VZ is actually blizzlike, if I remember correctly. They didnt fix it before TBC, so they are gonna stay invisible forever I believe.

^this


LOL? But voting 2 times per day for titans or 100gold aswell as being able to get full t1 from donation shop is actually blizlike? Please stop pretending you are leaving things be just cus you dunno how to fix them. Its pretty game breaking and even if it actually was unintentionally blizlike, why wouldnt you try to fix it cus it obviously needs fixing?

Now, this doesnt stop some great people to create addons which makes this issue slightly easier: http://vanillagaming.org/forum/index.php?topic=20988.msg161887#msg161887

Just for the record, I agree with erga. We should strive towards a blizzlike server, whether we like it or not


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Almisael on May 03, 2017, 09:52:48 pm
maybe we should strive towards 2005ish hardware where voidzones were not visible due to graphiccards issues :>


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 03, 2017, 10:16:06 pm
maybe we should strive towards 2005ish hardware where voidzones were not visible due to graphiccards issues :>

Just as Almi said. Funny how someone need to bring this up everytime and still people call those invi voidzones "blizzlike".


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Floki on May 03, 2017, 10:33:01 pm
maybe we should strive towards 2005ish hardware where voidzones were not visible due to graphiccards issues :>

Just as Almi said. Funny how someone need to bring this up everytime and still people call those invi voidzones "blizzlike".

You're absolutely right. Why would someone spend time coding invisible obstacles. Rather, why would a huge company waste resources to code something that is not visible. Last year I submitted a post somewhere on reddit to get people's opinions that used to play on retail and they laughed at me for even asking saying that Voidzones were never invisible and that nobody would code something that is invisible.

Common sense can tell you that nobody would code something invisible. I remember the "proof" people had submitted to prove invisible voidzones and the proof was really really lame, but I didn't bother explaining coz I know I won't accomplish anything, even though it's common sense we are right about invisible voidzones are NOT blizzlike.

I hate it that instead of being listened to, we are being attacked by the GMs for expressing our opinions and using common sense to approach this. I understand if you don't know how to fix it, but don't delete our posts or attack/punish people for trying to prove that this is a bug. I'd offer to find and email Blizzard developers to send me proof that invisible zones are a bug, but I'm afraid of putting our server on their target. If you think it won't, I'll try to contact someone to find me proof about this, because I am 100% sure I am right and invisible zones are a bug. Let me know what you think about that.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: CollateralGaming on May 04, 2017, 12:14:53 am
If you look at this video here, you can clearly see the Void Zones spawning and are Visible.  This was Fura - Mage PoV in Curse. 

It's clearly visible, therefore you should have them visible on VG as well.  Blizzlike.  There's your proof. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sljVITJREd8


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 04, 2017, 12:43:53 am
That video been linked alot before and its shitty since that mage doesnt even go to Blaumeux. Few people call out in guildchat that THEY got invi voidzones and died because of that which would most likely mean it wasnt invisible for the others. We only get a glimpse of the voidzones when mage turns camera towards Blaumeux for few seconds and it seems like all are visible then. This video proofs nothing sadly. Did you even watch it yourself?


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: CollateralGaming on May 04, 2017, 02:24:14 am
That video been linked alot before and its shitty since that mage doesnt even go to Blaumeux. Few people call out in guildchat that THEY got invi voidzones and died because of that which would most likely mean it wasnt invisible for the others. We only get a glimpse of the voidzones when mage turns camera towards Blaumeux for few seconds and it seems like all are visible then. This video proofs nothing sadly. Did you even watch it yourself?

You can see clearly at the end of the video the voidzones. Did you watch it yourself?  No, he doesn't directly go on the boss, and one of the reasons Fura was invited to join Curse was because he had amazing quality videos back in the day, yes this is very true.  He was basically recruited for his Videos. 

I raided Naxx in 2006, and I killed Four Horsemen, our video which I created was on Google Videos before youtube was even a popular platform for video content.  Sadly, I can't retrieve my Google Videos.   You guys on this server have to be kidding me if you think the Voidzones were scripted to be invisible.   Just like Nefarian is suppose to shoot shadowbolts and fear random players during Nefarian?? or The double Noth Add Spawns on the 2nd trip up to the balcony.  You can clearly see the voidzones on his screen.  If they are invisible for players, they would be invisible for "ALL PLAYERS" not just a few.  Graphics issues were a problem in Naxx 40 back in the day.  Even this server has issues, you have to turn down your "terrain detail" or you get freezes.   This instance is hard yes, and Four Horsemen is suppose to be difficult, but the voidzones are suppose to be Visible the whole fight.   If you are to Unreasonable to realize that, then you're definitely not someone I would want in my guild. 



Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 04, 2017, 02:30:13 am
If you read quote to Almi I agreed that they werent supposed to be invisible, lol. Theres 3 visible voidzones at the end when he actually goes there when you can see blaumeux fight and you say is SOLID proof of them being visible. Cool lifestory as usual tho after I just pointed out the actual stuff in this video. We still lack some actual proof if we want this ever getting fixed.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: CollateralGaming on May 04, 2017, 02:32:40 am
If you read quote to Almi I agreed that they werent supposed to be invisible, lol. Theres 3 visible voidzones at the end when he actually goes there when you can see blaumeux fight and you say is SOLID proof of them being visible. Cool story as usual tho. We still lack some actual proof if we want this ever getting fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-8l3UXtYI

here's a video of Gummo, a Resto druid in Curse, different time of them killing 4H, different PoV, you can look at the voidzones during the encounter.  Check @ 9:00.   Thanks, Good day.


@3:14 in the video you can see the Voidzone Spawn right under him, and he moves. 

There you go.  Hard Actual proof that Voidzones are visible.  Clearly and unjustified. 


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 04, 2017, 02:34:10 am
Thanks. There we can actually see how the voidzones are :) Now lets get this fixed!


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: CollateralGaming on May 04, 2017, 02:39:21 am
There we can actually see how the voidzones are :) Now lets get this fixed!

^^


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Uthoris on May 04, 2017, 04:48:08 am
Juicy vg drama


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: MonetFanboy69 on May 04, 2017, 08:54:37 pm
Juicy vg drama

fkin fite me u POS shaman i bet ur underage 2!!!!


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: sveznajucastena on May 05, 2017, 09:24:37 am
There you go.  Hard Actual proof that Voidzones are visible.  Clearly and unjustified. 

check the chat @7:05 of the video. if you can locate his dead body and a voidzone under him then it would be an actual proof


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: CollateralGaming on May 05, 2017, 10:34:51 am
There you go.  Hard Actual proof that Voidzones are visible.  Clearly and unjustified.  

check the chat @7:05 of the video. if you can locate his dead body and a voidzone under him then it would be an actual proof


Is this actual proof then?

Video I found from SoTG Guild.   9/10/2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO4WrqlzOoI



Check @ 9:30 in the Video, Void Zone Spawns undernearth him, he moves late, and takes 3,143 Damage.  #Proof.

Also check @ 11:14 in the Video, Void Zone Spawns, he takes around 3400 Damage, then he still moves late, and dies. 

You can clearly see the Voidzones on 2 video's I've posted from retail guilds.   They damage you, accordingly.

The reason some were invisible were because peoples graphics cards couldn't handle them.  Remember we're talking about 2006 here, with RAM of 256 MB,  now everyone is mostly running 8GB of Ram. 


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 05, 2017, 10:50:52 am
What we need to be paying attention at these videos isnt single void zone spawns. We need to check if there is ALWAYS the right amount of void zones visible or if anyone is calling out he died to "invisible" void zone but others can see it. And yes Almisael already said that the reason some were invisible were because peoples graphics cards couldn't handle them.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Elynn on May 05, 2017, 03:15:16 pm
+1 to fixing invisible void zones.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Vowen on May 05, 2017, 09:57:24 pm
How can they fix it if they can't see it?


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 05, 2017, 10:06:31 pm
How can they fix it if they can't see it?

Its not actually invisible, it just spawns underground (I think?). Let me know if Im wrong about it.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Ayag on May 06, 2017, 12:55:08 am
I think some sarcasm was missed :o


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 06, 2017, 01:10:14 am
I think some sarcasm was missed :o

I was thinking the same but you never know with some people and if they can actually find them so made it clear ;)


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: jobezi on May 06, 2017, 02:43:27 am
Stop nerdin, you will just make content easier than it is..


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Sota on May 06, 2017, 02:59:05 am
I dont think that getting full content cleared is that easy. And as people said they want blizzlike experience and atleast we think this is not like it should.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Vowen on May 06, 2017, 09:19:47 pm
I think some sarcasm was missed :o


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: hadhanval on May 09, 2017, 05:05:59 pm
To the people trying to get video proof of the INVISIBLE void zones: Are you seriously this stupid? Btw noone ever said that on live all void zones were invisible, so saying things like "The void zones were clearly visible for the 5 seconds the cameraman panned towards it" make no sense. We need to look for people taking damage or dying while not visibly standing in void zones.

Something like this:

http://www.predestinedguild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3158

Date, picture evidence, text talking about the invisible void zone, it's all there.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Strawie on May 09, 2017, 05:51:26 pm
^ glad somebody noticed


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Homura on May 09, 2017, 06:25:44 pm
A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: wopwop on May 09, 2017, 06:42:49 pm
A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.

Little to none on VG. KT should reset all aggro after each MC.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Bremius on May 09, 2017, 07:40:42 pm
I just spent about an hour googling this and here are just a few links I can provide to support the argument of invisible void zones being blizzlike.

Dates for clarity:
June 20, 2006 - Patch 1.11.0 added Naxxramas
September 26, 2006 - Patch 1.12.1
December 5, 2006 - Patch 2.0.1
January 9, 2007 - Patch 2.0.3 - Dark Portal Opens event
January 16, 2007 - TBC released

http://www.predestinedguild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3158
http://www.predestinedguild.com/images/news/2006-11-2/invisvoid.jpg
Predestined, Horde guild. This post is from Nov 3, 2006 of them killing 4HM. There is text referring to the invisble void zones as well as a picture of 2 people dying to one with combat log.

http://lurkerlounge.com/forums/thread-3820-post-120810.html
Forum thread from 2006. I am directly referring to the post by Skandranon on 12-12-2006. I have not been able to find direct information from patch notes referring to these "fixes" but we see text of someone saying these invisible void zones were fixed in patch 2.0.1, meaning they were still a problem in patch 1.12.1.
Quote
The Four Horsemen. Having repaired invisible void zones, the patch has finally removed randomness from the encounter. Know what to do and when to do it and these guys aren't too tough, though they're still harder than nearly everything else.

http://www.forgottenaspects.com/forums/index.php/topic,8083.msg67700.html?PHPSESSID=ebid499qli13e8dpvromgmhtlenud59a8u6ds3simtc107473mk2094ttvt6ukkf0puo6c63u5cb9j1s6tfi813284i40gh9t2vdah2#msg67700
Forum thread post from Nov 17, 2006. This member provides an overview of the 4HM fight including boss abilities and strategies that can be used. At the end of the post he provides some additional information:
Quote
Lady Blaumeux is the most deadly of the Four Horsemen due to her void zones. The best way to avoid them is to get a spell alert mod like WitchHunt so that you can see when she's casting. As soon as you see the cast message, strafe to the right or left to avoid them. Some void zones are bugged and are invisible, so you need to strafe no matter what.

I understand the argument of - it just seems stupid that blizzard would script invisible void zones. But there's no way it was intentional. This information is clearly showing that guilds were dealing with this issue during retail vanilla.

If anyone can find hard proof with dates, text, images, videos, of people suggesting there weren't invisible void zones then continue posting. A lot of the videos previously linked just show small portions of Lady Blaumeux's corner. We would need to look at much more than just a few seconds. I think it needs to be stressed that NOT ALL voidzones are bugged. Only SOME appear invisible. When and where that occurs seems to be unknown and completely random.

So this seems pretty blizzlike to me, unfortunately. Should probably stop asking GMs to fix what technically isn't broken for patch 1.12.1.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Almisael on May 09, 2017, 09:00:20 pm
A question for all KT killers, what are the odds of the MC'ed MT getting aggro back after the next MC(tank1=>mc1=>trank2=>mc2=>tank1) here on VG?

Just asking, since I found a video that shows that happening.

Little to none on VG. KT should reset all aggro after each MC.

well if you are not complete retarded and are not getting mc'ed while rebuilding threat you should be back after 4 mcs


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Connelly on May 09, 2017, 09:21:46 pm
Raiders impressions and efforts to work around it doesn't make for an argument for or against it. Context, though, is much more useful to glean any information; the first forum talks of them angrily as defective code, but this doesn't help beyond that given that it's not probable they were privy to the code itself; Iorek and Skandranon refer to them as "bugged" and then "repaired" after the release of TBC, so its safe to asume that during that time it was considered a broken mechanic, either by players' understanding of the fight or admision of Blizzard developers. and later considered a fixed mechanic to some sort of extent.

Another thing to consider: the same fight in WotLK, even if you consider that the remade raid was (or not) slightly toned down compared to the vanilla version, void zones there weren't invisible, so if you'd consider that most game developers would try to fix and retune the content that they revisit, it reinforces the idea that void zones weren't intended to be invisible. They'd want the most people possible to experience the fights as the imagined; 10-25 group number changes from 40 and loot systems would help in that, and they'd have no reason to take a given "hard" mechanic out if they didn't think it was important.

An example of a quick search for testimonies of people who played during that time:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4siu45/question_on_the_original_naxxramas_4_horseman/
Quote from: Sampson_the_Druid
Did the fight when it was current (never got past them sadly thanks to all the tank poachers) and I can assure you that they were all quite visible and nobody died from an invisible zone.
Not doing the dance properly and fucking up your debuff stacks? Absolutely killed people. Hidden, untextured zones of death? Nah. That sort of random one-shot BS only happened on pre-nerf C'thun.
Quote from: librarytimeisover
I remember this fight! Visible!
Quote from: Emeraldon
No, they were all visible unless someone had horrible lag or something similar.
Quote from: Lunn89
I remember we had some members complaining about invisible voidzones on 4horsemen, but I never encountered any myself. I think it was lag or bad PC / videocard / drivers not being updated tbh.
Quote from: shadowX015
Well it isn't how it's supposed to be. [...] The mechanics that can kill you obviously should be visible. It's a bug.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1319568-Original-Naxx-4-Horsemen-hardest-encounter-ever
Quote from: Warstar
People also had to deal with invisible void zones which some people did use that as an excuse when they just tarded it up it was a buggy mechanic that really did exist and would one shot a healer if they didn't get out before the damage from it ticked (think of moving on heroic lich king except sometimes defile was invisible and instantly killed you when it ticked it's first damage). Not so much of a mechanic but a common bug that had to be dealt with.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=16065/lady-blaumeux
Quote from: DeGoudenEeuw
On 40man Lady Blaumeux was probably the deadliest of all four horsemen due to her void zones which would often glitch and become invisible for many raid members, while still hurting if you stand in them, which was really a lot of added difficulty being around her considering that pretty much the whole area around her was covered with void zones during the fight.

Besides, its one thing to claim and push for Blizzlike'ness, but using it as a justification to keep bugs that aren't working by the rules of by any understanding of how game mechanic should work is misguided at best and malicious at worst.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: hadhanval on May 09, 2017, 11:08:06 pm
Probably the best recap of the issue at hand. In my opinion it is pretty well established that this issue happened on live. I think we can safely assume that the less than half of people who say they don't remember the bug either didn't encounter it because it is linked to circumstances which didn't apply to them, possibly the strength of their PC. The argument they use is never "no that didn't happen" but rather "Blizzard would never do such thing". It's a bug. Bugs happen. But bugs don't happen every time so we shouldn't base our judgement on the handful people who didn't encounter them.

After the existance of the bus is supported by evidence of multiple sources, we need to decide on the next step: should it be fixed? Yes. Although it has an "original vanilla feel" it is still a bug. People don't always want Blizzlike. Not when we can get better than Blizzlike. Despite this, the bug should have a low, maybe medium priority, when there are much more gamebraking bugs that can actually ruin one's enjoyment of the game, such as WSG flag, blink or fear. Things that occur much more often on a much more core mechanic of the game that can not be avoided in any way (these void zones are insanely easy to avoid even when invisible). After these core bugs are ironed out, I am completely with killing this historic bug.

Now if only VG had more than a 9th grader with a python cheat sheet as a coder, that would be great :D


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: KENJY on August 11, 2019, 01:57:32 am
Nice! Since I'm a greedy mofo: what about fixing KT? Namely Chains of Kel'Thuzad.
Nice! Since I'm a greedy mofo: what about fixing KT? Namely Chains of Kel'Thuzad.


Title: Re: 2017-05-02(1)
Post by: Mimma on August 11, 2019, 11:26:00 am
KENJY, stop necroing old threads you jerk.