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Author Topic: 2016-11-12(2)  (Read 4048 times)
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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2016, 09:14:32 am »

Seems the melee community is over 2 years (iirc) behind me on this server...
The fun part is that you actually believe that.   Kiss

Idk how it works in serbia, but in murica we believe that loyalty should always be rewarded, not punished.
Not that I'm trying to defend serbja or anything but how is increasing KT's HP, making him somewhat a "blizzlike" encounter for those that are past anub/faerlina/raz (i.e all the "loyal" guilds that are carried by gear) a punishment for the loyal players?
But I see your point herro member, would be a shame if new guilds reached up to KT without having oldies and cant kill him due to extra HP. Think the last time we saw a guild without oldies reaching past anub/faerlina/raz was 2,5 years ago when MCST got Gluth (and thaddius?) down (with pot stacking and 40 debuffs ?).

Releasing KT with blizzlike values is a mistake. The player base will soon decrease and new guilds will struggle when the top guilds starts to recruit their good players. We won't see a new guild (without oldies) reaching KT _ever_


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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2016, 09:27:56 am »

Lol pve
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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2016, 11:57:00 am »

Quote from: VG's website frontpage
[...] to be completely blizzlike with no expections is a driving philosophy for all of our devs and staff members...
Quote from: VG's website frontpage
Vanillagaming is the first option for the players seeking truly challenging and blizzlike Naxxramas.
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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2016, 12:04:09 pm »

Seems the melee community is over 2 years (iirc) behind me on this server...
The fun part is that you actually believe that.   Kiss

Idk how it works in serbia, but in murica we believe that loyalty should always be rewarded, not punished.
Not that I'm trying to defend serbja or anything but how is increasing KT's HP, making him somewhat a "blizzlike" encounter for those that are past anub/faerlina/raz (i.e all the "loyal" guilds that are carried by gear) a punishment for the loyal players?
But I see your point herro member, would be a shame if new guilds reached up to KT without having oldies and cant kill him due to extra HP. Think the last time we saw a guild without oldies reaching past anub/faerlina/raz was 2,5 years ago when MCST got Gluth (and thaddius?) down (with pot stacking and 40 debuffs ?).

Releasing KT with blizzlike values is a mistake. The player base will soon decrease and new guilds will struggle when the top guilds starts to recruit their good players. We won't see a new guild (without oldies) reaching KT _ever_



I bet every guild with proper attendance and gear level(Aka AQ40+BWL) can clear almost all bosses in Naxx..And reason why no new guild isnt progressing Naxx is plain and simple Fix buggy bosses in Naxx and you will see progression.
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2016, 01:36:59 pm »

Think the last time we saw a guild without oldies reaching past anub/faerlina/raz was 2,5 years ago when MCST got Gluth (and thaddius?) down (with pot stacking and 40 debuffs ?).

Chaos says hello ^_^
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2016, 01:38:54 pm »

Paradox says hello from the dead too.
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2016, 03:45:41 pm »

To get back on topic, both sides have valid arguments, but in my opinion it comes down to what you define as blizzlike. Obviously it can be as simple as "being exactly the way it was 10 years ago" but we know that it's not the case at the moment due to how things are.

Back then, when the top guilds were progressing new content, if we fix some arbitrary values and say their DPS, due to game mechanics and their gear, was 1 and that the new bosses' HP was 1 too, then it doesn't make sense to put the same HP values here, because clearly the top guilds DPS' on VG isn't 1 due to game mechanics and gear.

If you keep the same HP values as retail, that makes the new encounters sensibly much easier, and you can argue that it's not very blizzlike to have easy new encounters, when it is supposed to be hard and challenging.
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« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2016, 10:09:21 am »

Think the last time we saw a guild without oldies reaching past anub/faerlina/raz was 2,5 years ago when MCST got Gluth (and thaddius?) down (with pot stacking and 40 debuffs ?).

Chaos says hello ^_^

yea sarek is such a new player lol, as are the numerous players that left dp when he got kicked.
but im pretty sure even mcst had a couple oldies in thier ranks.

IIRC, melees were "nerfed" way long before casters, with proper armor stats on NPCs inside AQ40 and Naxx. They introduced spell penetration mainly because 40 debuff slots and consumable stacking, not the casters spell coefficients. Melees were also nerfed when the scaling on many different items was fixed (no more serbo rogues). But I agree that there is much more to be fixed, such as hit scope for melee, windfury/sword specialization procs, weapon swaping that doesn't trigger swing reset etc. Some of these things were proven and reported even, and yet there's still no fix.

man idk if u rele know what nerrfed means tbh. when something isnt wworking rite and gets scripted to blizzlike values itsss not a nerf, its a fix.

making items that werent supposed to stack with spell power not stack with spell power, and fixing cons effecting melee trinkets/weapons, so that they work in a more blizzlkike manner is nnot a nerf, it's a fix. adding correct armor valuesss iss not a nerf, its a fix. adding unblizzlike spell resistances to alll bosses is  a fucking nerf, not a fix.


Link me the bug report.
oh man i gotta remeber this for future use.
Well it kinda is, because 3 or 4 of the top guilds clear AQ40.
i think thaat u r over estimatimating the ratio of srs raiders vs casual scrubsss on tis server. i kno usss hardoccore peep ss like to post on the forums aaand be heros or whatever, but the majority of players dont even bother with forums add dont do raids past mc/aq20/zg pugs.
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2016, 03:10:11 am »

Quote
nailed it. ppl got shit on while doing 4 horsemen, sapphiron and KT.
if u keep it the way blizzard released shit its no way near blizzlike comparing to their item level back then.
double the HP and we g00chie.

While this is true, as you probably realize they got shit on for not being bis geared up to the point of their own progress. Part of blizzlike is being able to clear stuff easier due to gear; which alot of guilds had time to do pre BC release; wether you like it or not. If you want harder encounters perhaps you should reroll and do naxxramas last wing in aq40 gear.

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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2016, 09:45:59 am »

tbh i just wanna know why only kt and sapph should have higher hp. By gnoem (and everyone who agrees with him)'s serb logic, shouldn't all naxx bosses have higher hp? and why not make it so all bosses have higher xp while ur at it? after all, the server is so old, no one could possibly struggle through a 5 man rite?

no one told people not to play here for the 5-6 years vg has been open, and no one told devs to release naxx piece by piece over 3-4 years. devs shouldnt deliberately make bosses unblizzlike just because people have been loyally playing on this server for years on end.

imo if u have been playing here for years on end and somehow don't have near bis and enough people willing to play with you who also have near bis, u shouldnt try to influence devs to punish those of us who do.

essentially wat im tryna say is: go fuck urself u dp fgts, no one cares wat u think about anything
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2016, 10:26:41 am »

I don't know about the rest of the community, but I have high hopes for this final release of the classic world of warcraft.

I really hope the last content won't be released until properly tested to ensure the true blizzlike experience which vanillagaming is aiming for.

With that I'm talking about all boss/mob abilities/stats working as intended as mob ai, spells and environment.

If everything is working as intended, the last fights will be hard enough.

Really looking forward to it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 10:33:34 am by Atreyyo » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2016, 04:30:00 pm »

Gfk, that wasn't entirely the point tho.
The point is to make it feel more blizzlike upon release. That comes back to the point I made about how one understands and feels what "blizzlike" should be.

I wasn't playing when the first three wings were released, so I cannot judge of their relative difficulty compared to the gear level when it was released.

I was playing when DK wing got released. Without saying it was easy, it can be argued it wasn't as difficult as when it was released on retail. Razuvious was relatively easy on retail and so it was here. Hardest part of Gothik was the coordination and I would say it's fairly transcribed on VG.

Now 4HM was clearly, clearly easier here and that's mainly due to the marks' re-apply timers being incorrect. Without saying I wished that it took as long to kill them as it took on retail (~80 days IIRC ?), GGC killed them super quickly, I don't remember about EQ but I believed it wasn't that long after GGC and DP killed them fairly quickly too. Chaos was still progressing Naxx, but once we had access to 4HM, it didn't take us that long either.

So, "tbh i just wanna know why only kt and sapph should have higher hp", the answer is to make it harder to make it feel more blizzlike, in the sense that it is supposed to be challenging and not be on insta-farm. You're free to agree with it or not, but that was what was meant.

I don't totally understand your point about loyalty and punishing. I wouldn't take it as a slap on the face if they made the final and new bosses harder and not insta-farmable. I would cherish the challenge and that would push my motivation ; but how you feel about it is personal and not totally relevant.
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2016, 05:24:16 pm »

You can't discuss the subject without defining the term "Blizzlike". For some people it probably means "as close to the retail version of Classic WoW" and for some it might mean "an experience as close to the retail version of Classic WoW". The result will be different based on how you interpret the term.
With that said it is the owner and developer's interpretation that should be used. And with their focus on authentic sources and transparency I reckon they chose the first mentioned interpretation.
But perhaps they will listen to suggestions if they are brought forward in a civilized manner. If you insult and complain on the opposing party hard enough, VG-style.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:28:37 pm by Poodlesnack » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2016, 05:24:49 pm »

but how you feel about it is personal and not totally relevant.

Altho it's relevant in the sence that opinions need to be put out here to make sure a few forumoldies wont push dev's into making funserver encounters. Also it's kinda fun how you want to make it blizzlike in the feeling, how would do you script feelings?
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2016, 10:33:22 pm »

Now 4HM was clearly, clearly easier here and that's mainly due to the marks' re-apply timers being incorrect. Without saying I wished that it took as long to kill them as it took on retail (~80 days IIRC ?), GGC killed them super quickly, I don't remember about EQ but I believed it wasn't that long after GGC and DP killed them fairly quickly too. Chaos was still progressing Naxx, but once we had access to 4HM, it didn't take us that long either.
tbh the reason GG and EQ cleared 4HM so quickly was because we spent a week or two testing dk wing before release and even with the absolute bis gear GMs gave us to test out the wing (even including sapph/kt loot and a couple atieshes) we still wiped a lot of times before we managed to learn the encounters.
Vanilla is not hard, people said it was because they were young children with bad gaming skills and things like moving out of aoe, or having any sort of situational awareness was extremely uncommon, but anyone who doesnt suck at the game, and has 30-39 friends who also don't suck can power through any content. That's why GG got server first Plague Wing kills when half our raid was in blues, even though Unique, DP, EQ, and Paradox had all been in Naxx for a while before our guild even formed, and outgeared us by alot.

So, "tbh i just wanna know why only kt and sapph should have higher hp", the answer is to make it harder to make it feel more blizzlike, in the sense that it is supposed to be challenging and not be on insta-farm. You're free to agree with it or not, but that was what was meant.

I don't totally understand your point about loyalty and punishing. I wouldn't take it as a slap on the face if they made the final and new bosses harder and not insta-farmable. I wouldcherish the challenge and that would push my motivation ; but how you feel about it is personal and not totally relevant.
So your entire argument is based on how you personally feel, but my argument is irrelevant because you think it's based on my feelings. (even though my argument is that devs should script things as blizzlike as they can, because that's what they promised to do)
But I get it, only your personal feelings are relevant right?
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