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Author Topic: How to Hunter  (Read 109608 times)
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« on: December 26, 2014, 03:22:01 pm »

Hello fellow Hunters,

as I started to get into the Hunter materia myself some weeks ago I was searching for a „How to“ in our forum but could not find any solid informtation, especially not within one topic.
This is my try to sum up all needed information on „How to Hunter“ from alot of different sources I used.

The agenda is as follows:

  • Builds (Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)
    This is only interesting for you if you are completly new to the hunter materia as that russian guy explained alot of the pros and cons of almost all valiable talents.

 
  • Basic Hunter tactics (Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)
    This is interesting for both long time players and, especially, new hunter players
 
  • Rotation / Cycle (Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)
    Usefull for maximizing your DPS in PvE
 
  • Trinket Rotations (From Xaeroflex in ej forum July 31 2006)
    Should be interesting for everybody who wants to maximize his PvE Dps
 
  • DPS Sheet (by Janitor 2014)
    Ever wondered if Item X is better than Y? And if you should go for a Full or Clipped Rotation? This is the answer!
 
  • Pets
    Interesting for every Hunter, I hope Cheesy
 
  • Macros / Addons (From TKA something  Dec. 17 2006, Janitor and myself)
    Hunters should be using almost all their abilities, there  are only a few ones that are worthless, this helps you to bind all of them with less buttons and improves your overall gameplay
 



I hope this guide will help you to improve your Hunter skills.

Greetings
Wolfgang, BuexxTM, Steve, Billy

« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 03:23:39 pm by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 03:22:12 pm »

Chapter 1 – build
(Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)


Leveling build

Like many other people , I consider Beast Mastery – Marksmanship ( BM-MM ) the best build for leveling.  Here’s the talent layout I recommend for fastest leveling 1-60. Note: I, Buexx, edited the whole text where I saw it is necessary to avoid advertising and wrong information.

 


A long and really detailed explanation about why he took those talents can be found here (pastebin link

_______________________________________________

Raiding builds

So , you’ve capped level 60 , you’ve got enough money and you’re ready to venture further. Both BM-MM and deep MM build are suitable for visiting pre-raid instances. However , I strongly recommend to collect your pre-raid set in deep MM build. A naked MM hunter will partially lose damage compared to BM-MM if we take pet into account , but it will be much easier to find a party. Hunter is not the most desirable class in these dungeons and an average party can go on without him. MM hunter has several pros , such as Trueshot Aura and Scatter Shot. He also possesses deterrence , raptor strike crits , improved traps , more stamina etc due to talents in Survival. BM hunter has more total damage and an additional control “item” – a powerful pet able to tank. Unfortunately , BM hunter is not highly demanded in these dungeons. If you receive invite for the last slot in the party , you may be asked to dismiss pet and turn on Trueshot Aura. If you do neither 1st nor 2nd , you’ll be looked at quite obliquely or even kicked from the party. If you’re ready for that – you’re welcome to choose BM-MM , else MM is your choice. I understand that pet phobia is not born from scratch. But in my opinion , the point is not in the pet but in the man right in front of the screen. Some can perfectly control their pets , while others wipe raids even without them. I personally didn’t pass a day in BM-MM specc at lvl 60 , but I got invited in MC right after capping and there’s no place in MC for a naked BM hunter.
 

Here’s my variant of Deep MM hunter build



 A detailed, long explanation about the talents can be found here (pastebin link)


_______________________________________________

Heapheaus advised to use this sort of an 0/21/30 build for "top Dps, req Hit cap and 480+ agi unbuffed" here



_______________________________________________

What I have good experience with so far is the following spec for raiding with ~T1 Gear as it provides great group support due to the Trueshot Aura compared with good DPS if you manage to controll your pet. Also recommended a few times in the hunter forum





_______________________________________________

Deep MM vs deep Survival spec:

However this (prior to 1.12 written) guide on TKA something compares Survival with MM and comes to the result that even with 467Agi Survival is not worth speccing into it.

I run a test myself now with 591 Agility (prespec, with Survival spec I got 679Agi), 1688 RAP, Hitcap (what you easily get with good gear, I do not see the 3%Hit from Survival as a huge + for that spec, the item you can replace due to those 3 Hit are basically your Hit Scope for +7Dmg) and got the following results for 500+ Hits:

 _________________________20/31/0__|__0/21/30___
 Multi- Shot Avg/Max Hit: 1175,6/2021___|__1133,3/1904
Aimed Shot Avg/Max Hit: 1628,7/2847___|__1694,8/2910
_Auto Shot Avg/Max Hit: 0901,5/1600___|__0978,7/1662
Pet DPS(Brooken Tooth):         223      ___|___160

In a 3min fight we would (3s Attackspeed) shoot 60 Auto Shots, 30 Aimed Shots and 15 Multi-Shots (you only use Multi-Shot every 5 of 6 Rotations, see Chapter about Rotation/Cycle) if we go Full Rotation.

That means:
20/31/0 BM/MM Build:
60*901,5(Auto Shot) + 30*1628,7(Aimed Shot) + 15*1175,6(Multi-Shot) + 223*180 (Pet DPS) = 160725 Damage done or 892,9 DPS

0/21/30 MM/SURVIVAL Build:
60*978,7(Auto Shot) + 30*1694,8(Aimed Shot) + 15*1133,3(Multi-Shot) + 160*180 (Pet DPS) = 155365,5 Damage done or 863,1 DPS

 The point of no return for Survival spec for maximized single target damage without a pet should be arround 500Agility, however if you can use a Pet you should prefer the BM/MM spec (the group support of Trueshot isn't even counted in).
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 03:01:10 am by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 09:29:21 pm »

Chapter 2 – Basic hunter tactics
(Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)

A large part of this chapter will be dedicated to MC , the dungeon you’ll spend most of your time in.

Levelling tactics
While levelling up to level 60 , I’d recommend doing the same at every new mob:
1 ) Order your pet to attack the target mob.
2 ) Hunter’s Mark on mob.
3 ) Serpent Sting.
4 ) Autoshot till the mob dies.

All this will allow you to always have full health and almost full mana in case of occasional PvP.. The best mobs to kill are -1-2 levels to yours , those give much experience and possess little threat. Some may say that “well , I can kill a mob +5 levels of mine , or an elite of my lvl”. You certainly can , but after the fight you’ll have zero mana , a barely alive pet and half health. During that fight time , you could kill 2-3 mobs of -1-2 level and get more experience , loot , money without an unnecessary risk. I’d advise to grind humanoids and undead cause they drop very much Cloth ( Linen , Wool , Silk etc ) , which stacks by 20 and costs much at AH. So you’ll return to city less to sell all the crap you’ve gathered during grind.

Questing’s good too , but if you wish to level up quickly , you better know where to go and what to do in all quests you take. Otherwise , it may take more time than simple grinding.

Another option is levelling up in dungeons. A good one , you’ll almost always have very good blue items on your character , but there’s one “but”. You need a party in which you’re 100% sure. No constant AFKs , no wipes and so on. Believe me , it’s very hard to find such a party (especially on VanillaGaming with the 15x rates we got) , but if you did – hold on to them with both hands.


Basic dungeon rules

Though hunter is considered the best puller , in practically all dungeons a tank pulls himself. Let him do it – you’ll still have a lot of work to do. Here are several thing a hunter should do whenever a pull occurs :

1 ) Put a freezing trap right in front of the healer , if he gets  aggro , which happens if 2-3 mobs are tanked simulatenously , one of the mobs will be trapped and your party will have extra 10-26 seconds.

2 ) Always keep an eye on the healer ! It’s your second to damage dealing party role. If a healer gets attacked by 2 mobs – one should be trapped , use pet to tank another ( using intimidation on such a mob will almost surely make him attack your pet after the intimidation stun is over ). If a healer deals with more mobs attacking him – try using distract shot or multishot to get aggro. Anyway , those mobs better attack you than the healer. You wear mail ( leather before level 40 ) and you have much dodge. Priests have neither 1st not 2nd. More than that , any healing class will have problems with healing if attacked by multiple mobs. So by pulling mobs off the healer you’ll ease his task – he’ll be able to heal tank , your pet and you.

3 ) Basically – let the tank gain arrgo. A mob should be attacked only after 3-4 seconds after pull and begin not with an Aimed Shot ( I wouldn’t recommend using it anywhere except PvP and raid dungeons ) , but with a Serpent Sting and then spam Arcane Shot.

4 ) Don’t use multishot. It’s a good ability , but there’re no low level tanks able to firmly hold 2-3 mobs at the same time. A multishot will likely make 2 of 3 mobs attack you – so use it only after mobs have 50% health or less. Also be sure , that your multishot don’t break any crowd control ( sheep , sap , shackle etc ) – your party won’t donate you cookies for such a thing.

5 ) Use mark before the pull and later to ease concentrating all party damage on one mob ( Note : this was written before 1.11 patch introducing well-known raid targeting system ) This will lower the possibility of somebody stealing aggro and receive minimal damage income. After killing the first mob , mark the one attacked by tank ( assist button is F by default ). If your party uses crowd control – choosing the next mob to kill is up to you. The common order is : trapped mob – sapped mob – shacked/sleeped mob – sheeped mob.

6 ) Kill casters first ! They usually deal most damage , often AoE , so they have to be neutralized quickly. Commonly this means a sheep or sap , if both don’t occur – kill em right after the pull.

7 ) If you have to pull a caster or a mob with ranged attacks – either break his LoS ( Line of Sight ) or run out of his spells’ range. These actions will make the mob follow you by feet.

8 ) If you see a mob ( humanoid ) trying to run ( they usually do this at 10-30% health to call for help ) , try stopping him with scatter shot – concussive shot or intimidation.

All rules written above are right for all 5-men dungeons. In UBRS or ZG ( where there are many people ) you’ll have to arrange with other hunters about who marks mobs and who looks after which healer.


Some Dungeon tricks

(Note : there are very many tricks , and very few are listed below. I added some which weren’t in the original guide , but still many remain unlisted. Please help with filling this part Smiley )

1 ) At UBRS General Drakissath is sometimes killed with use of pull-away tactics. A hunter activates AoC , pulls him using Distracting Shot , runs to the arena or to a cave where originally “The Beast” boss stands and then uses Feign Death. During that time , the party kills both adds and waits for the boss to return. The only trickly moment is the low speed of the boss , which may lead to him evading and returning to the party earlier than planned. So one should use Arcane Shot or stings to avoid such a problem.

2 ) At Dire Maul recommended tactics for King Gordok is tanking Cho’rush using a pet , far away from the king himself. A hunter stands at maximum range from the king , right between the king and the pet. So you’re able to shoot , you’re able to heal your pet if necessary and Cho’rush can’t heal the boss. Great !

3 ) At Maraudon and ZG , an aspect for 60 Nature Resistance will serve you well.

4 ) Some instances contain stealthed packs and patrols ( for example , Eyes of Naxxramas in Strat , Eldreth Spectres in DM , Blackrock Assasins in UBRS ). Some of these can cause serious problems , but a hunter can prevent that. If you know a rough position of a mob – you can break his stealth with a flare , this won’t engage the mob (it does on VanillaGaming, so watch out!) but your party will know what awaits them.


Raid dungeon tactics

Tactics for MC , BWL etc is very different from tactics for 5-men and 10-men dungeons. First of all , each mob is likely to have his personal tank , usually specced in full Protection. So getting a mob’s aggro is MUCH harder , especially if you’re equipped with blue items. With increase of epic items worn by your character and especially obtaining a cool weapon , you’ll find yourself stealing aggro more and more often. So , one shouldn’t show his maximum damage in first MC raid. Add damage step by step and with time , you’ll have a feeling telling you if you’re close to getting aggro. ( Note : or just use KTM  This was written before introduction of this marvelous addon. However , having such intuition is good for cases when KTM bugs or RL forgets to set master target. )

(Note : dps discussion is somewhere really funny in modern realities. However , I leave this for historical interest. )

While you’re geared in blues , you won’t deal damage even close to rogues’ , deal with it. You’ll recoup only after you obtain full T1 and the epic quest bow. With good neck , rings , trinkets etc , you’ll be practically equal to rogues. When you get a Chroma Crossbow , you’ll both leave rogues behind and face a new problem : mages.

Unfortunately , I’m ready to state the fact that full T2 mages deal more damage than full DS hunters. The mages’ T2 last set bonus is better than hunters’. Mages have much more potions elixirs and world buffs increasing their damage. In BWL , some fat mobs have vulnerability to a certain school of magic , so mages deal triple damage to some of these mobs. New spell ranks from AQ20 will even increase this difference. But mages don’t have any abilities for aggro drop , while hunters can lower their aggro in melee and once in 30 seconds they can completely wipe all their aggro. That’s why mages have to stop casting at many bosses while hunters can damage as much as they can. ( Note : still be careful with some bosses , your RL will tell you more about that. )

The only moment when a hunter can steal aggro is the beginning of the fight , if Feign Death resists once or even twice. Keep an eye on that !!! If your first Feign Death at the encounter is resisted , better only autoattack the boss till the next Feign Death. In case of double resist , stop damaging at all till next Feign Death.

Never start attacking a mob who has less than 2 Sunder Armor effects ( 5 for bosses ). Start attacking step by step , use Serpent Sting , Multishot and only then Aimed Shot ( Note : Better don’t use sting even if there’re free debuff slots. Hunters have constant problems with mana and Serpent Sting has very low dpm ( damage per mana ) parameter. If you see that you don’t have enough mana to deal maximum damage for the whole fight – conserve mana for Aimed Shots. Serpent Sting is the first thing to sacrifice. And yes – debuff slots are limited , with SS being a useless debuff compared to CoE , CoS , SA etc ). Watch out for critical hits – if you had several in the very beginning , don’t wait till the mob attacks you and perform Feign Death a bit earlier.

Keep Feign Death on cooldown till the boss has 50% health. If tanks didn’t die or change during that time – you may stop permorming Feign Death for the rest of encounter. Also , mobs often stand in pairs , in this case don’t damage the first mob too much and make full burst for the second ( including trinkets , Rapid Fire etc ). While you kill the first mob , the second tank will gain very much arrgo.

To increase your damage , try to stand at a position , from which your Multishot hits maximum targets. But remember , if one mob is close to you , and another is far away , this won’t work. So keep similar distance to all the mobs. You can also try holding a sting on every mob , this will add to your damage too. Always keep a mark on the mob you’re attacking , that’s free 110 AP.


Attack mobs with SA debuffs on them. Firstly , this’s evidence that a mob is being tanked. Secondly , 5 stacks of SA reduce one’s armor for 2250 and you get increased damage. The priority targets for you are casters , let the mages deal with melees , their damage doesn’t depend on a mob’s armor. Also try asking druids to apply FF ( that’s -505 armor ) and warlocks to apply CoR ( additional -640 armor ). ( Note : CoR increases a mob’s AP. Don’t ask for it on tough melee mobs. At Valkyrie-wow , FF and CoR didn’t stack a long time ago , this seems to be fixed , but still check out. A certain bug is : normal FF and feral FF stack ). So , we’ll have a total armor reduction of 3395 , this increases your DPS by 20-40% depending on the mob’s armor.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 09:52:20 pm by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 09:52:00 pm »

Chapter 3 – cycles and cycling
(Translated by volkodav from a russian hunter CL 2006)


Basic theory

The main skill needed for dpsing as a hunter is using Aimed Shot correctly!!! Let me explain, what I mean. I don’t know whether it’s a bug or a feature, but atm Autoshot is always “on cooldown” during the Aimed Shot cast. You can easily check it by spamming Aimed Shot – you’ll always see an Autoshot performed right after the Aimed Shot cast has finished. Use it wisely – try casting Aimed Shot in a window between white attacks! Of course, if you have a fast weapon – it’s only partially possible, because Aimed Shot has a whole 3 seconds cast time. But it will still give you a DPS increase, because if you don’t watch your white attacks, you can, for example, occasionally start Aimed Shot cast 2 seconds after Autoshot. So, next Autoshot will be cast only 5 seconds later (these 2 seconds + 3 second Aimed Shot cast) and you’ll partially lose Autoshot damage. The rule is – WATCH your Autoshots and cast Aimed Shot right after Autoshot is launched. At the beginning, this will be quite hard and you will do nothing but watch your cycles. But in course of time you’ll gain experience and be able to intuitively determine when to start Aimed Shot cast. Keep in mind that Autoshot animation takes some time and that’s a problem: an Autoshot itself is considered casted, but the arrow and especially the damage numbers upon the mob appear a bit later. Believe me, loss of this time is no use for you and due to that time (and, of course, ping) you’ll become a good hunter of regular and the best of good.  For me the signal to start Aimed Shot cast is a sound of sinew being pulled. This is not universal, because many people play with music in their headphones and disabled game sounds. If you do so, you have to find some other sign.

 
Cycles timing

If these rules are put altogether, one can create an “ideal” cycle for each weapon. The best cycle would be for a weapon with 3.45 speeds (exactly 3 seconds with a quiver). In this case, we’ll have an ideal weapon for a 9-second cycle. This cycle would look like this:

 

0 sec – Autoshot + Aimed Shot cast start

1 sec – Aimed Shot cast

2 sec – Aimed Shot cast

3 sec – Aimed Shot + Autoshot + Multishot

4 sec – Nothing

5 sec – Nothing

6 sec – Autoshot

7 sec – Nothing

8 sec – Nothing

9 sec – Autoshot + Aimed Shot cast start

And so on…

 

So the cycle consists of the following: Aimed, Auto, Multi, Auto, and Auto.

This cycle allows to not losing Autoshot damage while casting Aimed Shot. This ideal, however, is broken by Multishot, because its cooldown is 10 seconds and cycle length is 9 seconds. In the 2nd cycle, Multishot will be cast at 4th second instead of 3rd and so on. Eventually, Aimed Shot and Multishot cooldowns will finish simultaneously. In this case, Aimed Shot should be cast, because using it will shift Multishot cooldown by 3 seconds, while Multishot cast will shift Autoshot and Aimed Shot cooldowns by 1 second which will lead to problems in the next cycle. Roughly, Multishot will be used only in 5 of 6 cycles.

 

This cycle is, as said before, ideal for a weapon with 3.45 attack speed. Unfortunately, such a weapon… doesn’t exist and isn’t likely to appear. Still, this cycle is nice for little faster weapons with 3.1 – 3.4 attack speed. All of these weapons are crossbows. Attack speed difference from the ideal makes one to lose some Autoshot damage, but due to ping, lags and one’s reaction these weapons will be quite equal to ideal. Cycle lengths for all such crossbows are listed below:

 

3.45 sec: 3 sec Aimed, 3 sec Auto, 3 sec Auto = 9 sec

3.4 sec: 3 sec Aimed, 2.956 sec Auto (3.4 / 1.15 = 2.956), 2.956 sec Auto = 8.91 sec

3.3 sec: 3 sec Aimed, 2.87 sec Auto (3.3 / 1.15 = 2.87), 2.87 sec Auto = 8.74 sec

3.2 sec: 3 sec Aimed, 2.782 sec Auto (3.2 / 1.15 = 2.782), 2.782 sec Auto = 8.57 sec

3.1 sec: 3 sec Aimed, 2.7 sec Auto (3.1 / 1.15 = 2.7), 2.7 sec Auto = 8.39 sec

 

Take the fastest of these weapons with 3.1 attack speed. Total length cycle is 8.4 seconds, while Aimed Shots are cast every 9 seconds. So one has to go AFK for 0.6 seconds, but remember – it’s impossible to start Aimed Shot cast right after Autoshot. The length of this “window” depends on ping, lags, reaction, mood and God knows what else. If you lose 0.6 seconds in the “window”, this cycle will be ideal for you. So , the more experience you have , the faster your connect is , the higher skill you possess – the less time you need to start Aimed Shot cast and the slower weapon is ideal for you.

  

Also, don’t get sucked into different cycle lengths – the common thing for these cycles is 9 seconds from one Aimed Shot to another.

 
Autoshot damage loss and Multi-Aimed cycles (Also referd to as "Clipped" Cycle).
 

Now I’ll try to explain what white damage loss is. Take quite a long period of time (for example, 3600 sec). 3600 / 9 = 400 full cycles would be performed for that period. One cycle is 3 Autoshots , 1 Aimed Shot and 1 Multi-Shot , so one would cast 1200 Autoshots , 400 Aimed Shots and 333 Multishots ( we use Multishot only in 5 of 6 cycles , remember ? ). If no abilities were used, then for that period we would perform:

 

3.45 speed: 3600 (3.45 / 1.15) = 1200

3.4 speed: 3600 (3.4 / 1.15) = 1218, 18 more shots or 1.45% more shots

3.3 speed: 3600 (3.3 / 1.15) = 1255, 55 more shots or 4.35% more shots

3.2 speed: 3600 (3.2 / 1.15) = 1294, 94 more shots or 7.25% more shots

3.1 speed: 3600 (3.1 / 1.15) = 1335, 135 more shots or 10.14% more shots

 

Only 3.45 attack speed allows casting Aimed Shots without damage loss. In any other case, casting Aimed shots will reduce the number of Autoshots fired per hour. The main point of all this “cycle theory” is to fire as many Aimed Shots as possible without a significant loss of Autoshots!  DPS for different cycles may be further computed more accurately, because different abilities cause different damage with different gear and without any additional knowledge it’s hard to say whether 5 Aimed Shots are better than 11 Autoshots.

 
Here’re some cycle examples for popular fast weapons:

2.9 speed: 3 sec Aimed, 2.522 sec Auto, 2.522 sec Auto, and 2.522 sec Auto = 10.57 sec

2.7 speed: 3 sec Aimed, 2.348 sec Auto, 2.348 sec Auto, and 2.348 sec Auto = 10.04 sec

2.6 speed: 3 sec Aimed, 2.261 sec Auto, 2.261 sec Auto, and 2.261 sec Auto = 9.78 sec

 

As you can see, these cycles are a bit longer than 10 seconds and they contain 4 Autoshots instead of 3. They are called Multi-Aimed cycles and used for fast weapons. The main advantage of these cycles is that both Aimed Shot and Multishot cooldowns are shorter that the cycle length, so one may DPS forever after surf’s up. Another advantage is mana regeneration. Both abilities are fired simultaneously and then no abilities used for 10 seconds, that’s 2 ticks of mana regeneration. The problem is the reduced number of Aimed Shots, which’s compensated by increased Autoshots number.

 

The particular weapons are the ones having 3.0 attack speeds. Two practically equal cycles exist for such weapons:

1)      3 sec Aimed , 2.609 sec Auto , 2.609 sec Auto = 8.22 sec

2)      3 sec Aimed , 2.609 sec Auto , 2.609 sec Auto , 2.609 Auto = 10.83 sec

 

In the first cycle, one fires 1200 Autoshots, 400 Aimed Shots and 333 Multishots. In the second, you get 1330 Autoshots, 333 Aimed Shots and 333 Multishots. So, the first cycle contains 67 more Aimed Shots and 130 less Autoshots. Calculations will give the answer, what’s better … (done with for example the DPS Sheet from Janitor)


____________________________________________

For the experienced hunter this will be known stuff, if you are one of them and want to go way deeper into the materia I can forward you to Lactoses post in the elitist jerks forum.  As it fills 6 posts within there I will not copy it here, but it is worth reading all of them if you want to maximize your Dps. Click on the banner below for the topic.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 11:50:35 am by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 10:17:10 pm »

Chapter 4 – Trinket Rotations

Goals:
To determine the effects of various, passive and activated/cooldown, trinkets available up to Naxxaramus combined with the hunters ability to Feign Death and swap trinkets in the middle of a fight.

Trinkets considered:
Blackhands Breadth (2% Crit)
Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas (+48 Ranged Attack Power)
Drake Fang Talisman (+56 Attack Power)
Devilsaur Eye (+150 Attack Power for 20 seconds, 2 minute cooldown)
Earthstrike (+280 Attack Power for 20 seconds, 2 minute cooldown)
Slayers Crest (+64 Attack Power, +260 Attack Power for 20 seconds, 2 minute assumed cooldown

Trinkets not considered:
Jom Gabbar (I'm at a loss as to how to model this accurately)
Kiss of the Spider

Scenario:
A fully raid buffed, reasonable well geared hunter with range against a zero armor target, with no aggro or mana issues, using Rank 5 Multishot and Rank 6 Aimed shot with a 3.0 speed (after quiver bonus) crossbow, 13.5 DPS ammo, in a 10 second shot rotation. I'll be using the Xbow of Smiting average damage for the calculations.

Rapid fire will not be calculated into the damage results, as it is a multiplier of your current average DPS, thus whichever trinkets increases your average DPS the most will benefit the most out of Rapid fire.

Calculations used:
Damage is calculated per 10 seconds, assuming 1 Aimed Shot, 1 Multishot, and 3 Auto Shots take place during the 10 second rotation.

Total Damage Done = (Non-crit damage)*(1+((Crit rate)*1.3))

Non-crit damage average = 600+150+(2*((((AP/14)*2.8 ))+7+155+(13.5*3.4))))+ (3*(((AP)/14)*3.4+155+(13.5*3.4)+7))

Initial stats:
1700 Attack Power (no trinkets equipped)
25% Crit rate

Base Damage:
600+150+(2*((((1700/14)*2.8 ))+7+155+(13.5*3.4))))+ (3*(((1700)/14)*3.4+155+(13.5*3.4)+7))
=3708

Accounting for crits:
=3708*(1+((0.25)*1.3))
=4913

Which is:
491.3 DPS

Using Blackhands Breadth only:
Base Damage
= 3708
Damage with Crits
= 3708*(1+((0.27)*1.3))
= 5010

Or:
501.0 DPS

Using the Royal Seal:
Base Damage
= 4985
Damage with Crits
= 3762*(1+((0.25)*1.3))
= 4984

Or:
498.4 DPS

Using the Drake Fang Talisman:
Base Damage
= 3771
Damage with Crits
= 3771*(1+((0.25)*1.3))
= 4997

Or:
499.7 DPS

Using the Slayers Crest in passive mode:
Base Damage
= 3780
Damage with Crits
= 3780*(1+((0.25)*1.3))
= 5009

Or:
500.9 DPS

Conclusions from Passive Trinkets:
Since we already know that crit scales to your attack power, there is a breaking point with each of the passive +AP trinkets vs the 2% crit from Blackhands Breadth, this one happens to be pretty close to 64 AP, given that guilds breaking into AQ40/Naxx, DFT + BB combo is the best combination of passive trinkets outside of Naxx as shown below (Slayers Crest is assumed to be not activated for the following calculation, for purposes you will see later in this thread):

Combination
Base Damage
Damage with Crits
DPS

SC + BB
3780
5107
510.7 DPS

DFT + BB
3771
5095
509.5 DPS

SC + DFT
3844
5093
509.3 DPS

DFT + 48AP
3825
5069
506.9 DPS

Active Trinkets:
There is several schools of thought on actived trinkets such as Devilsaur Eye and Earthstrike, one is to open with the trinket, Feign Death and swap to a passive trinket, Feigning Death again 30seconds from the expiration of the trinkets cooldown in order to minimize the time spent without a stat boosting passive trinket.

Another is to juggle several activated trinkets, in the hopes that the damage done during the time the trinkets are active will out damage the 30 seconds worth of no stats during the trinket swap cooldown.

Methods analyzed:

During a 120 second (the cooldown of many activated trinkets) cycle, the followed methods are used:

1) Starting with an activated trinket and a passive trinket, opening with the activated trinket, FD and swapping to a passive trinket for the duration of the cycle, without ever swapping back.

2) Starting the same with the above combo, however, 30 seconds out from the expiration of the cooldown, FD and swap to the activated trinket for another burst when the cooldown/equip cooldown is finished.

3) Starting with one activated trinket and a passive trinket, opening with the activated trinket, FD and swapping to another activated trinket at the 30 second mark, activating the second one at 60 seconds, and swapping to the first activated trinket again at the 90 second mark.

4) Starting with two activated trinkets, opening with the first one, activating the second trinket, FD and swapping in two passive trinkets.

5) Same as the above, however at the 90 second mark FD and swap in the two activated trinket to continue the cycle.

For the passive trinket, the priority will be Blackhands Breadth, followed by the Drakefang Talisman. For the activated trinket, the priority will be Earthstrike and then the Devilsaur Eye.

First scenario:
Earthstrike with Blackhands Breadth, FD @ 20 seconds and swapping to Drake Fang Talisman.

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (ES active + BB)
= 10873
Damage done during seconds 20-120 (BB + DFT)
= 50950
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 61823 / 120 = 515.2 DPS

Second Scenario:
Earthstrike with Blackhands Breadth, FD @ 20 seconds and swapping to Drake Fang Talisman, FD @ 90 seconds to swap in Earthstrike.

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (ES active + BB)
= 10873
Damage done during seconds 20-90 (BB + DFT)
= 35665
Damage done during seconds 90-120 (ES cooldown + BB)
= 15029
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 61567 / 120 = 513.1 DPS

Third Scenario:
Earthstrike and Blackhands Breadth equipped, FD and swapping to Devilsaur Eye at 30 seconds, using the Devilsaur Eye at 60 seconds, FD and swapping Earthstrike for Devilsaur Eye at 90 seconds (This ones very messy, I’m open to a better way of sorting multiple activated trinkets, and be happy to model it).

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (ES active + BB)
= 10873
Damage done during seconds 20-30 (ES inactive + BB)
= 5010
Damage done during seconds 30-60 (DE on cooldown + BB)
= 15029
Damage done during seconds 60-80 (DE + BB)
= 10477
Damage done during seconds 80-90 (DE Inactive + BB)
= 5010
Damage done during seconds 90-120 (ES on cooldown + BB)
= 15029
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 61426 / 120 = 511.9

Note: There is just too much dead time of not having a +AP buff during this rotation.

Fourth Scenario:
Earthstrike and Devilsaur Eye equipped, activating Earthstrike followed by Devilsaur Eye, FD and swapping in Blackhands Breadth and Drake Fang Talisman.

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (ES active + DE inactive)
= 10664
Damage done during seconds 20-40 (DE active + ES inactive)
= 10275
Damage done during seconds 40-120 (BB + DFT)
= 40760
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 61669 / 120 = 514.2


Fifth Scenario:
Earthstrike and Devilsaur Eye equipped, activating Earthstrike followed by Devilsaur Eye, FD and swapping in Blackhands Breadth and Drake Fang Talisman, FD and swapping n Earthstrike and Devilsaur Eye at 90 seconds.

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (ES active + DE inactive)
= 10664
Damage done during seconds 20-40 (DE active + ES inactive)
= 10275
Damage done during seconds 40-90 (BB + DFT)
= 25475
Damage done during seconds 90-120 (ES and DE on cooldown)
= 14740
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 61154 / 120 = 509.6

Conclusions:
According to my calculations, In order to have an overall higher DPS, in a sustained fight, than a Blackhands Breadth + Drake Fang Talisman combination, the simplest solution that requires the least amount of Feign Deaths is keeping Blackhands Breadth active, and cycling Earthstrike with the Drake Fang Talisman.

This does not take into account the times that you would be otherwise unable to DPS. Maximizing the time DPSing while the trinket is activated, and keeping as much of the cooldown time during a time that you would be otherwise unable to DPS will maximize the use of such activated trinkets. Given my lack of experience with endgame content, I cannot point to a specific fight and say which times that would be.

In addition, given the knowledge that FD+Drink is less than optimal for DPS, I wonder how much more benefit that a FD+Drinking rotation would get out of using the trinket swap cooldown during the drinking time. I' ll be attempting to model this soon.

Slayers Crest:

The Slayers Crest and Kiss of the Spider are two excellent trinkets, having both passive stats and an activated bonus, thus eliminating the lack of having a passive +stat trinket during the cooldown phases of either trinket (which is the killer behind other activated trinkets)

Slayers Crest + Blackhands Breadth:

Damage done during seconds 0-20 (SC active)
= 11007
Damage done during seconds 20-120 (SC inactive)
= 51072
Total Damage done / 120 seconds
= 62079 / 120 = 517.3

Summary:

Trinket 1
Trinket 2
DPS over 120 seconds

Slayers Crest (Activated during Cycle)
Blackhands Breadth
517.3 DPS

Earthstrike -> DFT
Blackhands Breadth
515.2 DPS

Earthstrike -> DFT -> ES
Blackhands Breadth
513.1 DPS

ES -> DE -> ES
Blackhands Breadth
511.9 DPS

Slayers Crest (Inactive)
Blackhands Breadth
510.7 DPS

Drake Fang Talisman
Blackhands Breadth
509.5 DPS

Slayers Crest (Inactive)
Drake Fang Talisman
509.3 DPS


I apologise for the lack of formatting -_-. Thoughts?


______________________________________________________

This is the initial post from Xaeroflex , the whole discussion goes over 3 sites, but I think the most important things are already covered by the text I quoted above. If you want to read the whole discussion, please visit



Personal Note:
And remember, Feign Death not only lets you change your Trinkets, you can switch arround your whole gear. You could think about wearing 2/9 T3 for more duration on Rapid Fire and 5/5 T2.5 to lower its cooldown by 2 minutes. After your first Rapid Fire you could switch back to your 8/8 T2 to apply the Expose Weakness effect again.
When you use Feign Death to switch arround gear, make sure to have no Serpent Sting on the target, no arrows flying and your Pet not attacking. Otherwise you will be in combat again very soon and it won't switch your gear. Addons that help you doing this can be found in Chapter 7 – Macros / Addons .

« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 03:34:09 pm by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2014, 12:19:22 pm »

Chapter 5 – DPS Sheet
(From Janitor,  also known as wopwop)


This excel sheet designed by our tester Janitor is a tool to check possible upgrades aswell as decide if you should go for a Full or Clipped Rotation. 
For more information about what a Full and what a Clipped Rotation is please see "Hunter damage cycles breakdown" by Lactose / Chapter 3 – cycles and cycling

In short I think Lactose explained it really good:
Quote
Every cycle consists roughly of:
1 Aimed Shot
1 Multi-Shot
x Auto Shot, depending on weapon speed and cycle lenght.

With most weapons, you'll find something like the following happening:
Aimed Shot finishes cooldown. Auto Shot fired ~1 sec ago.
Should you clip your cycle (ignore the next Auto Shot and fire Aimed Shot immediately)? Or should you use a full cycle (wait for the Auto Shot before using Aimed Shot?
What would give the highest damage potential?

To answer this, you needed to compare both options, and see which one would yield the most damage.

When you open the .xlsx the first time you will see something like this:


  • The red area is where you update the gear/enchants to yours or the items that are an possible upgrade.
  • The light blue area shows you the stats of the items you inserted.
  • The green area is designed to insert your current talents or try arround what other talents would mean for you Dps

When you scroll down a bit you will see an option to adjust your race (or try how awesome your DPS would be if you would have picked the right one), a summary of your total stats aswell as, like in my case due to missing enchants, the red message that you lack +Hit.


NOTE: The DPS sheet within the current state lacks the option to enchant your ranged weapon. IF you have the +3% Hit Scope in it you have to either adjust the weapon stats or accept the red field with the "NOT CAPED" message below it. Janitor explained that Hit cap is not part of the calculation as you should always be hit capped (and if it is only to not miss a Tranq Shot!). Therefore if you use a +3% Hit Scope you accept the red field, aslong as it says "6". The calculation is still the same.



Further down you will be able to see your current Stats on the right hand side, aswell as the stats of your weapon. Adjust the Quiver/Ammo Bag speed increase and insert the DPS of the arrows/bullets you use.  This can be quite interesting to see how much farming the blue arrows/bullets from dungeons would do on your DPS.
You can also adjust the Target, what Rank of Improved Hunter's Mark is used and how long the fight takes (as you can see only for RF calculation at the moment).
Below those settings you have an overview of your Average and Crit damage of several abilities. We will in most cases only use the top three of those, but it is always nice to know how much a Arcane Shot would hit for, in case we need to kite/move.



At the bottom of the sheet you can finally see if you should go for a Clipped or a Full Rotation and what the difference in DPS would be between them. You can also see the DPS-Peaks with Rapid Fire in a chart on the right.




In the Hunter section Janitor explained the missing features of this Excel sheet:
Here you can find the Inc updates:
Correct spirit/mp5
Mana: fight duration
Trinket Swap
T3 2/9 Bonus
Pet DPS (including specc)
ORC:5% pet dmg
Troll:berserking
Spec: Imp Aspect of the Hawk


barring these upgrades and adding the T3/naxx items I think the Sheet is complete. HF with it.


As you might see the sheet is not perfect, but especially for players who are rather new to the hunter materia it helps alot to check possible items, if they are worth your DKP or not.
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 12:53:09 pm »

Chapter 6 – Pets


This is a somewhat complexe Chapter, as Pets on VanillaGaming are not working exactly like on retail. At the moment (27.12.2014) Pets scale with your stats, meaning they are, especially with high end gear, stronger than they are supposed to be. If some high geared Hunter wants to provide me with an screenshot of what his full buffed Pet does DPS wise at the moment I would be thankfull and show it here, just to point out how crazy overpowered our Pets are at the moment.


As the places where to find special pets are correct aswell as the different species I would like to forward you here to the awesome "TKA Something" website. By clicking the links below you can see where to tame your favourite pets.

Serpents

Spiders

Gorillas

Scorpids

Bats

Boars

Carrion Birds

Crocolisks

Hyenas

Owls

Raptors

Wind Serpents

Turtles

Crawlers

Tallstriders

Wolves/Worgs

Felines

Bears



For Pet abilities I can, again, forward you to the TKA Something webpage. They have all abilities listed with an drop down menu for the pets that you can learn those abilities from (If you have a Pet for some time you will "learn" its abilities and will be able to teach them to other pets, as long as they are capable of this kind of abilitie. You won't be able to learn a bear how to prowl Tongue )

Click on the banner to visit their summary of Pet abilities.




As stated in the first post not everything is completly blizzlike in terms of hunter pets on VanillaGaming.
Therefore I tested the DPS of different Rare Elite spawns myself. The list is NOT completed yet, however I think I found the best PvE DPS Pet - King Bangalash, followed by Broken Tooth

    Feeding the Pet 2x with Roasted Quail although already shown as Happy (Charinfo DPS):
    Broken Tooth             132,7 DPS
    Bloodseeker Bat          129,0 DPS         (Can only learn Bite, no Claw as the cats can)
    King Bangalash           141,9 DPS          (Too fast Attackspeed after you tamed him at the moment)
    Lupos                         96,8 DPS         (Deals, AS SUPPOSED, melee damage in 1.12)
    Sin'Dall                      113,6 DPS
    Tethis                       118,9 DPS
    Bhag'thera                  105,2 DPS
    Echeyakee                   94,8 DPS
    Mazzranache                83,1 DPS
    Zulian Tiger                  91,4 DPS
    Zulian Panther               91,4 DPS
    Razzashi Venombrood      71,1 DPS
    Razzashi Raptor            118,9 DPS
    Araga                         109,1 DPS
    Rekk'tilac                      88,9 DPS
    Barnabus                      92,5 DPS
    Clack the Reaver          101,2 DPS
    Darkmist Widow             88,9 DPS
    Death Howl                   83,1 DPS
    Giggler                        100,5 DPS
    Gretheer                       88,9 DPS
    Greater Firebird            104,8 DPS
    Hayoc                          88,9 DPS
    Ironback                     96,56 DPS                 (It's a Turtle!)
    Krellack                        78,1 DPS
    Kurmokk                      104,2 DPS
    Spiteflayer                   107,9 DPS
    




To be continued....
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 01:27:05 pm by Buexx » Logged


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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2014, 05:15:57 pm »

Chapter 7 – Macros / Addons

from Janitor/Wopwop and



- Switching Aspect of the Hawk <> Aspect of the Cheetah within one Button (can also be done for Aspect of the Monkey)
Code:
/cast Aspect of the Hawk
/cast Aspect of the Cheetah

- Viper Sting and Scorpid Sting within one Button, checks if the target has Mana, if so it uses Viper Sting, if not it uses Scorpid Sting
Code:
/script if UnitPowerType('target')>0 then CastSpellByName("Scorpid Sting"); else CastSpellByName("Viper Sting"); end

- Viper Sting and Serpent Sting within one Button, works like the Viper/Scorpid Macro above
Code:
/script if UnitPowerType("target")==0 then CastSpellByName("Viper Sting") else CastSpellByName("Serpent Sting"); end

- Scatter Shot Macro to make your Pet not break the disorient.
Code:
/cast Scatter Shot
/script PetWait()
/script PetPassiveMode()

- Freezing Trap Macro that uses Feign Death only if you are in Combat and stops your Pets attack.  If you want your pet to stay where it is and not run back to you simply switch the "PetFollow" to "PetWait"
Code:
/script PetPassiveMode()
/script PetFollow()
/script if (UnitAffectingCombat("player")) then CastSpellByName("Feign Death()") elseif not (UnitAffectingCombat("player")) then CastSpellByName("Freezing Trap"); end

- Frost Trap Macro that uses Feign Death only if you are in combat and places the Frost Trap.
Code:
/script if (UnitAffectingCombat("player")) then CastSpellByName("Feign Death()") elseif not (UnitAffectingCombat("player")) then CastSpellByName("Frost Trap"); end

- Mongoose / Raptor Strike within one Button. Will use Mongoose Strike if its activated, if not it will use Raptor Strike. Can also be extended to use Wing Clip if Mongoose and Raptor Strike are not ready.
Code:
/cast Mongoose Bite(Rank 4)
/cast Raptor Strike(Rank 8)

- Counterattack / Wing Clip within one Button. If Counterattack can be used it will activate it, if not it will perform Wing Clip
Code:
/cast Counterattack(Rank 3)
/cast Wing Clip(Rank 1)

- Revives your Pet if it is dead, if it is alive it will Heal your Pet
Code:
/script if not UnitExists("pet") then CastSpellByName("Revive Pet"); else if UnitIsDead("pet") then CastSpellByName("Revive Pet");else CastSpellByName("Mend Pet");end;end

- Calls your Pet if it is gone, Dismisses your Pet if it is there.
Code:
/script if PetCanBeAbandoned() then CastSpellByName("Dismiss Pet") else CastSpellByName("Call Pet");end

- Sends your Pet to attack your target, or, if your target is friendly, his/her target. If your Pet is already attacking it will run back to your side.
Code:
/script if UnitExists("target") then if UnitIsFriend("player","target") then AssistUnit("target");PetAttack();else if UnitExists("pettarget") and UnitIsUnit("target", "pettarget") then PetFollow();else PetAttack();end;end;else PetFollow();end;

- Casts Aimed Shot and starts your Auto Shot if it is not activated already. NOTE: Auto Shot must be placed on the main actionbar position 10, thats the red bordered one:

Code:
/cast Aimed Shot(Rank 6)
/script if not IsAutoRepeatAction(10) then UseAction(10) end;


And there is many more of those at TKA Something, check their website out.
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 07:04:14 pm »

Didn't read through this but it seems overly complex for a class whose only practical use in PvE is kiting, tranq shotting and placing traps xD.
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2014, 07:58:18 pm »

Didn't read through this but it seems overly complex for a class whose only practical use in PvE is kiting, tranq shotting and placing traps xD.

Yes, if you are a baddie.
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2014, 08:36:52 pm »

Added most of macros! Ty mate! :> Great post tho. Very useful
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 05:23:48 pm »

Hah yes! This is on a nerdiness par with Deeps and Janitor!   +10
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 05:53:54 pm »

Didn't read through this but it seems overly complex for a class whose only practical use in PvE is kiting, tranq shotting and placing traps xD.
830 dps on Patchwerk. We can if we want !
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 06:05:31 pm »

830 dps on Patchwerk. We can if we want !

Did you maybe record it?
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2015, 03:03:33 am »

Shortened the Build Chapter and updated it with an really interesting outcome for a 20/31/0 vs a 0/21/30 (Scroll to the bottom of the post).
Please somebody countermath it again as it is a bit late already :O

The DPS calculated there are against a 0 Armor target,  Mongoose Potion, Aspect of the Hawk RAP and, depending on the build, Trueshot Aura. The gear I used can be posted if you want me to, but think about close to BiS gear. I count with a perfectly performed Full Rotation what probably not alot can achieve over a three minute fight.
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